[Suggestion] Rework some TR weapons

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by SuperTrooperWaterloo, Oct 2, 2014.

  1. SuperTrooperWaterloo

    Since SOE broke the faction benefits with the Striker (DPS for TR) i would love to see some rework for the following weapons:

    Its just a bad version of the Fury only accessible for lower cert points. Its rly the same weapon only with 2 less bullets and no heavy armor dmg. 2 Direct hits for infantry and 3 indirect... all the same compared to the fury. Everyone would choose heavy armor dmg over 2 bullets.
    Btw how can you let the vanu have a weapons that has TWICE THE MAGAZINE AND SAME INFATRY KILL DMG (20mag / 2 direct hits 3 indirect) and not bullet drop?!?! TR DPS faction?!? The marauder is a grenade launcher and the vanu has still the same AOE like we have. Even the NC with their shotgun has not bullet drop and deals dmg equal to the distance it is used because of the pellet hits but ofc noone uses that **** because they have the enforcer with 500 dmg, 8 bullets like the fury and no bullet drop like Vanu and still kills infantry with 2 bullets since its a AV weapon?.

    The worst AV weapon for killing infantry... sounds strange but if you look at the other factions AV-weapon its more than unbalanced what they can do to infantry beyond the chainbalde range the vulcan needs to hit a target with its ridiculous spread fire/bullet drop and charging mechainc for RPM. Especially for a Prowler.... A PROWLER that is the only known only artillery ingame that loses every 1v1 t2 tank fight on purpose. So why do second gunners in a Prowler get a weapon that is ineffective beyond 30m!?! *Pointing at LOCKDOWN*
    Ability; Lockdown(MAX/Prowler):
    I know, its no weapon but we all know that noone is using the MAX lockdown and if they used it they could have done the jobe without. Rly, what is the MAX´s worst enemy? C4 and a Launcher rockets..... and what is easier to hit a MAX that cant move? The RPM improvement is beyond good if you have a crossair with AI weapons. Versus tanks AV movement is more important because you are NO VEHICLE, YOU ARE A MAX THAT MOVES for 450 resources, same vs AA if you have only a 180° view.
    Rly, every player with the urge of self preservation wont pick a lockdown MAX.

    Prowler lockdown:
    We have 2 types of bullet velocity with lockdown for all 3 types of bullets = 6 unique types of aiming. ********.
    Prowler is the best tank for range engagements?
    Everys t2 tank AP bullet velocity is that low that you dont have any difficulties shooting them at range if you are BR 100 and know how to aim. So bullet velocity skill dies with aim skill and is worthless in higher BR battles.Abilities and mechanic wins.
    If you get first hit ,locked down, on a Vanguard and the fight continues with 100% accuary on both sides the Vanguard will win with shield.... Shield=3 seconds immortality in 1v1. If you imagine that the prowler needs time to deploy AND undeploy its just ridiculous.
    VS Magrider its the same problem. You cant deliver your on paper dps because the magrider moves with their steady aiming non-stop, so you will miss a few bullets becaue you are no psychic where he will AD-shift and lose in the end with lockdown.

    Pls change those things. The prowler case is the worst. If i want an answer for a roaming t2 tank i have nothing to give as TR since the footchain is Vangaurd>Magrider>Prowler>other vehicles. If i want to destroy a specific t2 tank as TR i can pull no vehicle but a mossi with the hope i dont get AA in enemy bases. I can destroy every vehicle even against the other factons except the t2 tanks that stay on top of the foot chain, so why you give me other vehicles with the same destroyability but less surviveability vs t2 tanks? Just makes the prowler equal to mid or close combat t2 tank fights.
    • Up x 1
  2. cruczi

    Well, that's a lot of text no one bothered to proofread.

    DPS has never been a TR faction trait. TR is about continuous damage and high ROF. They're the aggressive faction, NC is the defensive faction and VS is just pseudo futuristic.

    Yeah, it's not worth it over Fury... no reason to have zero damage to armor for so little benefit against infantry. But MBT's don't have access to Fury so that point only matters to Harassers. The MBT Marauder needs to be compared to Kobalt on the one hand and Halberd on the other; Kobalt has far better range and accuracy but requires more skill to hit with, and doesn't work as well against groups; but both Kobalt and Marauder are pretty bad picks over Halberd. There are just so few scenarios where it would be a good idea for the gunner to not be able to fight armor at all that MBT AI weapons need to be excessively good to be worth picking in the first place.

    OTOH I'd be happy to see all AI weapons removed from MBT's.

    Also agreed, it doesn't fit the Prowler. The most short range AV weapon for the most long range MBT. IMO it should be a Fracture style thing, an alternative to Halberd with slightly better DPS but requiring you to stay out of cover for longer to do that damage, and having long reloads (for all those rockets to load).

    For Prowler I actually like it, but for MAX it's way too situational to make sense. But that's fine, ZOE is even crappier.
  3. SuperTrooperWaterloo

    Dont midn if you proofread, then ill use your context.

    "You: "continuous damage = not the best DPS." You need to lower our dmg per 40 bullets per weapon to gets this statement straght.
  4. DatVanuMan

    1. Preach it.
    2/3. BOTH are getting reworked. The Marauder is becoming a Banshee (Soon, everyone will know that the PPA is not even mediocre compared to this crap, while the Vulcan is becoming EXACTLY what you said it should be.4
    4. I miss ZOE, man. I really do:(
  5. cruczi

    What, why? You're talking about Damage per Minute which takes reloads into account.
  6. cruczi

    Good stuff :)

    And I feel for your loss. I'd love to see some more purple glowing crabby things on the battlefield
  7. SuperTrooperWaterloo

    And reload isnt DPS? Do the math. Simply example is the prowler with AP without lockdown. But that goes for every common weapon. Thats why we got the vulcan and it got nefed with the cross croasshair.

    2. Dont believe SOE until it happens since this striker thing thats dont fits the TR in ANY case.
    4. You miss ZOE? Like i already said in another post.... welcome to the MAX lockdown world where its faction ability is usless and didnt get picked since release from a expierenced player.
  8. DatVanuMan

    Well, Higby said it was happening, plus a lot of people have been saying the same thing, so...
    Also, what is more useless? Current ZOE, or lockdown? BE HONEST.
  9. cruczi

    yeah sure, tank DPS calculation accounts for reloads because reload is what causes their ROF and it's what matters in actual tank fights. But for infantry weapons like your 40 bullets per mag ones, damage per second is not a TR thing. A TR weapon won't kill faster, it will just have to reload less often.
  10. SuperTrooperWaterloo

    its wrong how u said it.
    A TR weapon will DEAL MORE DAMGE to enemys OVER TIME.
    For me thats is simply best DPS. Including reload.
  11. zombielores

    #1. DPS was/is and probably never will be a "faction trait" because you can't tie it into lore, it is a side effect to high RoF weapons but you have no source or backup info to claim DPS is a faction trait.
    #2. There's DPS and DPM, due to the nature of tanks only having 1 or 2 shot it's just simple to put it into DPS terms instead of DPM. DPM is only useful if you target is able to survive near or above a minute as your not going to kill it in near seconds those making DPM a moot point, it's just not practical to say 60000 DPM and your target dying in 1/60th of a minute as when you can say 1000 DPS and dying in 1 second. So basically if your TTK is in seconds then you use DPS but if your TTK is in the minutes then you use DPM for common units.
  12. cruczi

    Yes, it will deal more damage over a long period of time. But it will not deal more damage per second. In any given second when damage is actually being done, it will do damage according to Rof/60 * damage.
  13. SuperTrooperWaterloo

    Hehe, finally someone said it :) ON paper we have the best DPS but in the seconds that matter we lose because of the faction special. :)
    Just kidding, im fine with infantry and Air battles. But if i invest 450 resources in the best tank i can get but cant win vs other 450 tanks by far im done.

    Btw do the math again with the AP t2 tanks rounds+reload vs other t2 tanks. Better dps in the main cannon but you still cant win.
  14. SuperTrooperWaterloo

    If you look at the DMG you will see that the Prowler has the best DPS AND DPM but a Vanguard can skip the DPS/M part with its shield... so i guess DPS/M matters?!?
  15. abaddun

    I don't think you entirely know what you are talking about. Let me elaborate.
    Without the shell arc, the marauder in comparison is a reasonable comparison to the PPA. It has an additional 25 RPM, it takes one less indirect hit to kill a non flak/nano weave, two direct hits completely bypass flak armour 1 whilst the PPA has damage drop off past 10 metres, on top of that, the PPA has triple the minimum cone of fire. So the PPA has a greater shell velocity, and a higher magazine size, however, because the PPA lacks a shell arc, it is a very easy weapon to use at medium range, and a little more reliability at long range. At extreme close range, the marauder wins out, but that’s an incredibly narrow niche, so if I am going to make a prediction, either the PPA will be replaced with a direct fire weapon, or the marauder and canister will receive a buff.

    You have clearly never tried to kill an infantryman at 20 fps with the saron. It’s not easy. I would say that you have never used the Vulcan before, as I have certainly been on the receiving end as a light assault. Whilst it may lack the raw TTK of the halberd, I have found it very easy to use in my dabbling on my TR alt, and as a light assault, it has a perfectly reasonble TTK at medium range, which is the maximum range somebody skilled with the saron could reliably kill an infantryman.
    I am not entirely sure what you are doing, but the prowler catching any other tank in the rear with AP rounds will have a near certain chance at killing said tank in an isolated environment. I have jumped a prowler in my mag rider from behind, and as I am a lonely, friendless git, It is very unlikely fir me to have a secondary gunner, which therefore results in the prowler rotating it’s turret an unloading shells into me, leading to a rather even fight. The lockdown is just gravy, making a powerful close range tank incredibly effective at range, the reload speed boost cranks up the DPS, and the boost in velocity leaves little time for the opposing tank to react, on top of making it easier to compensate at range.
    I would not call the mag rider a long range tank, primarily because of the poor main cannon. Whilst the further you are away from your aggressor the easier it is to dodge shells, returning fire is a far greater challenge, as the low shell velocity makes compensating over range incredibly difficult against moving targets, therefore when you would most likely be powerless if your opponent takes cover to repair. The saron is a very nice weapon for long range combat due to the high velocity and no bullet drop, but it really shines at point blank range, as you can dump your magazine very quickly, and as it’s significantly easier to get behind enemy tanks with the magrider, you are more likely to take out another tank with a close range rear alpha.

    Max lockdown has only really been useful with fractures at long range or with bursters, but at least it’s better than the zealot engine.

    In a large engagement, the prowler is at a disadvantage compared to the other two tanks, mainly because you are vulnerable to multiple damage sources, without the survivability of the vanguard or the mobility of the magrider, but against other MBT at close or long range(in the open), you have the advantage.
  16. IamnotAmazing

    They're changing the maurader to a tank mounted banshee and the vulkkan to tank mounted quad fractures
  17. SuperTrooperWaterloo

    Thx but ill believe it until i saw it.... more than ever since they released the new striker :)

    Guess the rock paper scissor system for the t2 tanks will never change in mid/close engagements but ill still try it.
  18. Soldat0815

    How much too strong is that fkn Banshee weapon?
    The splash damage is amazing and it kills Infantery and Tanks in seconds.
    No one else has a Weapon like this. pls Nerf this ****!
  19. IamnotAmazing

    higby said it somewhere on higby plz, I'm not gonna go look through all of the shows but that was a theory he was throwing around
  20. zombielores

    Ha nice try, won't get dragged down into one of these threads about tank balance.

    DPS is RoF*Damage/60, due to the fact that tanks only have 1 or 2 shots mean that their RoF is replaced by reload, sort of like chamber time or reload for 1 in the chamber type of weapons. DPM is damage over 1 minute including reload and amount of time firing, it is only relevant if your target can survive near or more then 1 minute, it is also a very faulty unit for measurement as it doesn't include sudden burst of damage [60000 damage distributed across 60 shots in 1 second with a 59 second reload will only show a DPM of 1000 but will have a DPS of 60000.].

    DPM only matters if your target can survive for more then 1 minute but DPS is still far better as it's more accurate and easier measurement to use.

    DPS and DPM are only 1 metric to measure a weapon, there are far more other factors to consider like accuracy or sustainability.

    P.S. Why are you comparing a shielded vanguard to a non-anchored prowler in a 1v1 with no numbers or stats backing yourself up, if your going to make blanket claims like that then you should be able to at least back up what you say or else your just going to look like another forumsider with anecdotal evidence.