[Suggestion] Rework infantry suit to make them on part with nanoweave armor

Players will always choose what gives them the most benefits in combat. You can easily see this in the number of heavies you see in most fights. No matter how good you would make it, as long as the benefit of Nanoweave is higher they will choose it.

I'm on board for a simple HS multiplier to 150% w/ Nanoweave removal.

we can worry about other suit slots later, they're much closer to balanced with each other even flak is at least only useful in half the fights so you can expect to see more than one suit slot...

I've been thinking the same thing lately.

My solution is a little less radical.

Eliminate nano-weave altogether and and 15% damage reduction to ALL of the other suits.

Also not a fan of grenade spam.

You think we need an increased ttk for body shots? Headshots are already almost mandatory....

A decent solution for nano would be keeping its 20% damage reduction but reducing all movement by 20%, to simulate wearing heavy armor.

Or just flat out remove it. It's ridiculous how ineffective body shots would still be compared to the head.

The problem with Nanoweave (or similar general resistances) is that it heavily messes up TTK. If you look at guns you will quickly notice that some guns have their TTK increased alot while others only get small increases or none at all. Now if you think about that all guns are balanced to a base line you will quickly realize that some guns become better than otehrs due to this fact.

In conclusion the bets thing you can do is remove it entirely to allow baseline balancing again. And while on it reduce some HS multipliers to make HS less mandatory to win fights.

Nanoweave is 20% reduction. Im saying all of the other suits should be 15% and have their ability too.

This would be a 5% reduction to nanoweave damage absorb.

You could even leave nanoweave as it is. 20% damage reduction and no bonus, or you equip another suit and get 15% and whatever extra ability.

As for messing with headshots, i say absolutely not. Headshots are what make the game so fun.

Not everyone is afraid of challenege, not everyone wants things easier.

For me the challenge of beating people who are better than me is what makes me keep playing.

Practicing headshots gives the game more depth.

If we make the game so easy that any new player can do well then we remove ALL replay value.

Skill based games are fun because you get to see yourself improve as time goes by.

It seems to have become part of our culture in america where everyone gets to have everything for free, and everyone has to get a participation trophy.

When i started playing this game i had never played a FPS before and i was way worse than terrible. My friend who got me into this game didnt tell me i could hold my breath with my bolt driver, so i spent several weeks trying to snipe with scope sway.

It was the challenge more than anything that kept me coming back.

Its been fun watching myself go from absolute trash to a potential force on the battlefield. I'm still getting better after almost 6 years and THAT is what keeps me playing and paying.

Reducing the damage of headshots could solve the problem of modification of hitboxes

Upon further consideration i think that such a change as i have proposed would also help to alleviate the HESH spam because wearing flak armor would be totally viable.

I suppose i cant disagree with this. Stupid cheaters ruining the game for everyone else.

this was probably meant as a snide remark or something, but what if ammo belt actually gave our primary and secondary +20% damage (premium ammunition) to counter those who chose to wear nanoweave instead of just giving us extra ammo?
I don't recall any weapons going over 800 damage (besides shotguns without slugs which can OHK already) so it would still keep weapons from one-hit-killing on body shots

Calm down. Changing the modifier to 1.75 for full autos wouldn't be the end of the world. The better player would still win. It would just help average players not lose as badly. PS2 isn't MLG, and you do have to make sure that the bottom 90% of players are having a good time if you want to the game to succeed. If the top 10% of players can't handle that slight nerf to auto weapon headshots then I could care less if they **** off and leave for Overwatch or whatever.

Still doesnt account for the fact that this resistance heavily messes up TTK on some weapons. Sure you get 20% resistance, which adds 25% effective HP, but some weapons increase their TTK by up to 50% through it. So there is little argument for keeping it other than fearing you might lose fights without it.

If the HS multiplier on auto guns would drop to 1.5x you would still be able to get a benefit by headshots. The main concern you raise here is the usual "If this changes i might loose more often". Your replay value also doesnt change you just have to improve in other areas. Only because you are good in full auto spraying HS doesnt make you a good player.

Would be pointless for some guns. 20% more dmg is a funyn thing, but there are weapons that would not get a reduced TTK from it. Thats the problem you gain when all weapons are balanced against 1k HP and you add bonus dmg or bonus resistance.

It's not to increase the ttk against unarmored people. It's to make sure your ttk remains the same whether you're firing on people with nanoweave or without nanoweave

Well in this case, you need to increase the damage by 25% to counter a 20% damage reduction (math). But if you just want ammo belt to counter nanoweave, just add "ignore nanoweave armor" and it's done : increased damage will make it far more valuable than nanoweave.
An other solution, without countering nanoweave, ammo belt could add +10m to max damage range.

It will probably solve the problem where nanoweave armor beat all other armor, but it won't resolve the other problem about Headshot against bodyshot : if you hit the head, you deal 2,5 more damage (x2 / x0.8) than people than hit the body. That's why there are so much people that advocate to remove bodyshot resistance.

Reducing headshot multiplier to x1.5 or x1.75 is an other thing : a lower HS damage multiplier will still give you a change to react before receiving the information that the first bullet is hitting you. And aiming for the head is still rewarding.
An other solution could be to add some suit that give reward on headshot kill, soomething similar to assimilate implant (let's assume NW is removed so the suit slot is now free).

The result would be more different than you think. Some guns will not benefit at all, some will benefit at a lower value. All you get is a hard to balance system. The best way is still to remove nanoweave because it means that all infantry will become base line and you get a working balance again.

Kind of... +20% damage doesn't really make any weapons have faster TTK, but it would mess with min-max damage at range still so it would mess with things pretty badly..

So what about making it to where small arms ammunition has less resistance to the vehicles and Maxes that small arms already damage? So they'd damage Maxes, Harassers, ESF, Flashes, and Valkyries more effectively..

I do like someone's idea to where nanoweave is completely removed, but we all have 15% resistance so ttk isn't changed much from what it is now

We have no resistance at all, so it is alot of difference.

To show you how Nanoweave effects weapons:

Nanoweave increases resistance from 0 to 20%, this means you go from 1000 to 1250 Health. Its noteworthy that when calculating TTK that the first shot you make is not effected by RoF as the waiting period for the next shot always comes after you fired. So for 10 Shots the TTK is actually 9xRoF.

Weapons with the 334 Model go from 3 hits to 4, the shots delayed by RoF go from 2 to 3 wich means Nanoweave increases their TTK by 50%.

Weapons with the 250 Model go from 4 hits to 5, the shots delayed by RoF go from 3 to 4 wich means Nanoweave increases their TTK by 33%.

Weapons with the 200 Model go from 5 hits to 7, the shots delayed by RoF go from 4 to 6 wich means Nanoweave increases their TTK by 50%.

Weapons with the 167 Model go from 6 hits to 8, the shots delayed by RoF go from 5 to 7 wich means Nanoweave increases their TTK by 40%.

Weapons with the 143 Model go from 7 hits to 9, the shots delayed by RoF go from 6 to 8 wich means Nanoweave increases their TTK by 25%.

Weapons with the 125 Model go from 8 hits to 10, the shots delayed by RoF go from 7 to 9 wich means Nanoweave increases their TTK by 29%.

You might notice the problem that especially high damage weapons suffer alot from Nanoweave and that the 25% increase in effective health leads to much higher increases for the TTK. This comes from overfiring. Most weapon models fit the 1000 Health value quite well and you only do slightly more damage than you need. The increased health from Nanoweave however messes things up alot. This reality is the reason why Nanoweave is so powerfull and used so often.

While I'm not going to contend with your math, as it looks roughly correct, I do not believe is particularly game imbalancing or, at the worst it could be, an indominable deal breaker in any sort of way. As someone who has not donned Nanoweave since 2014, it does not feel that way either.

How can you possibly have such a strong opinion if you haven't even used the item in 4 years? It's literally like being a HA and not using your shield. The vast majority of players can't land consistent headshots, especially at range. Nanoweave effectively gives you 30-50% more time in almost every gun fight. You really need to try it for a while and see for yourself how good it is.