Discussion in 'Combat Medic' started by Sock, Jul 30, 2013.
It's not an issue of prioritizing targets, it's about how brainless the current revive mechanics are. There's no risk vs the reward. It's always good to go for the revive because it can be completed so quickly.
Aye, but there's the risk you die trying to rez. Prioritizing targets may not be the issue but is the answer. Kill the medic engy and you cutoff the supply line. Through many years of fps/pvp gaming (15 years to be exact...lol I had to actually look it up) that has been the one constant when there are support classes.
I would be in support of a cooldown mechanic or maybe a revive limit for each player.
The cool down would work the same as the engineer gun but should only work for revives (I feel like healing is currently fine). If a medic is constantly reviving he should have to pull back every couple of revives (6 at max rank maybe?) and wait for a 15-20 second cooldown. But if a medic is only reviving once in a while he should be able to manage it fine with no over heat. So that way a good medic can balance his revive time so that it never overheats mean while the in experienced medic would most likely be running around with a basic gun that overheats.
The revive limit would work as each player had a certain amount of "tokens". Each dead player would have a number next to his name. Let's say it's a 4. With a top level gun the revive would take one token. With the others it would take two. That way it gives an incentive to level up your medic gun. After the tokens are spent the player's body would disappear to avoid confusion. Perhaps the number of tokens would be based on class? Max suits would get more.
Well, I think one of the reasons why reviving is so quick in Planetside 2 is because people die so fast in Planetside 2.
Just look at Battlefield. People die even faster there, and the Revives are even faster as well to compensate for that.
If people lived for longer, I could see longer Revives being more viable.
I wish there was a time to revive mechanic and a finish em off mechanic. Such as keep on shooting at the dead body (or knife them to conserve ammo) and force them to respawn or if time is up they do respawn.
Sort of like the return to castle wolfenstien which had a down health bar that keeps going down after time but also goes down if still taking damage.
I don't really disagree with the majority of complaints against the mechanics and play style of the medic. However I think the changes you are asking for should be part of an overall change and not an individual hotfix like you are asking for.
The overall play of Planet Side 2 is pretty "arcadey" in my opinion. The proposed changes to the medic gun would be a step in changing this. If you are trying to change the overall feel of the game to step away from an arcade type feel to much more squad/tactic based I think you should be asking for more changes then simply crying nerf on medic gun.
The original Planet Side was substantially slower than this and open world battles turned in sometimes multiple hour long fights that would net in overall less/slower individual player progression since you were not capping bases. This would further separate your "elite" vs "average" player base and would pigeon whole casual gamers into one type of play if they were to ever be competitive. For example, in it's current form my friends and I, who generally roll vehicles or small groups and avoid large army battles, can at ease decide to switch it up and roll with the zerg for a while and not be utterly destroyed doing so thanks in part to a number of mechanics, one of which is the current medic tool. This drastically creates opportunity to break up monotony and gives players the ability to more easily transition from outdoor vehicle battles to indoor CQC fights while still enjoying success.
Like I said I agree with the opinions and overall complaints of the medic tool, I just feel that by nerfing it like you guys are suggesting would have a much larger overall gameplay change than intended. Both of the overall play styles are fun and I would play either way, but the old slow PS1 did not cater to as big of an audience as PS2 from what I can tell.
The only thing I would agree with is a cooldown for reviving the same MAX.
Hell, I get killed trying to revive people more often than not. There is a large lack of skill required throughout this whole game, aside from maybe Aircraft wielding. It's not too difficult for any one person to cert their guns in the right place, then point and shoot. The answer? Better tactic. For example, I find it interesting when a concussion grenade gets thrown in a room I am in with others, yet no enemy squad ever flows in right afterward to kill me and my dazed teammates. What should've happened, is that room get rush and cleared out, then the force immediately makes their way to clear the rest of the building of enemy. Instead, they just let it wear off and we go back to playing peekaboo in the door.
Too me, teammates seems more afraid of dying and not being revived, than anything else. Which causes a massive amount of reluctance in tactical movements under fire. Even with the way the mechanics are now, people still play as though they only have one life to live. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the points, but geez, I wish people(in groups) WOULD play more like they have infinite lives. Maybe more stuff would get done. I'm sure i'm not the only one that's been in a Biolab teleporter room, and all the friendlies are too afraid to make a tactically coordinated push across enemy fire into the next room across from the shield wall. People would rather take a definite loss without trying (cap timer slowly counting down, and defense team is still in spawn room), than to die trying with a large coordinated last ditch push for the OBJ (not necessarily a MAX crash). I unfortunately see this more than anything else.
I also agree with the statement about the pace of the game. The constant flow of bodies and bullets is what gives the game that epic feeling of all out war. It keeps that constant war sound going, with bullets blasting, zinging, and pew-pewing by. Planetside 2 and Battlefield are the only games that I have played, where I get excited telling stories of situations in which I found myself, and either lived or died. Both games happen to have a seemingly instant revive mechanics. Yes, winning is awesome. However, winning too me atleast, isn't fun without some sort of drawn out engagement. Ghost capping is technically a win, and how fun is that?
I generally don't care about nerfs, because I believe better tactics can overcome many OverPowered situations. However, the problem is getting outfits/pubs more tactically oriented. Folks want to play to have fun and goof off, not simulate military tactics (which work extremely well in this game). So with that being the case, the only option is to always nerf the mechanic, rather than the player themself.
NERF IT! Sure, why not. I didn't pay for it
I think one of the easiest ways to find out more about this problem to to have SOE show heal and revive stats....
This. So much this.
I can't count the amount of times I've thought "Hm, maybe if someone just chugged a couple of Concussion and/or EMP grenade inside that room, we could all swarm in and clean house" and then realized:
a) No-one carries Concussion/EMP Grenades (I'm working on it though. Honestly!)
b) If anyone did you'd never see a group of people follow it up with the needed push.
It's the same thing with flanking. Having a hard time pushing up the stairs into a room? Situation could be solved with 3-4 LA jumping the roof access instead. Cannot blow up that Sunderer from inside your base? Get a couple of guys to pull vehicles at an adjacent base and go take it out from there.
Instead it seems people don't actively try to flank enemy positions, but would rather play meat grinder, where the winner is determined by who can cram the most human spam into an area and hope to come out on top.
Instead of tactics we have these massive clusterfracks of people playing peek-a-boo from doorways and a general lack of guts to get things done. However you cannot blame the playerbase for that, seeing that the game is widely accessible to everyone, but the experience would probably be so much better if people in general learned to play more tactically and learned how to man-up and get stuff done.
I'm not even sure anything can be done about it, seeing that it'd require people to actively communicate to get tactics going, and that is a hurdle in itself (I'm no saint, I don't really actively use a microphone, but listen to orders when people do try to organize tactics).
You probably mean a flash grenade, not EMP. EMP grenades have a very small blast radius.
It should be possible to have a guidance system which gives players objectives according what's happening in the game. All current objectives for your team in your region would be visible to you, and there would be limits to how many players may work on the same objective. You'd pick an objective that still has room in it and seems the most useful thing to do at the time. Extra XP would be rewarded for completing (or attempting to complete) objectives, this would be an incentive to actually do it once the objective is picked by the player.
The algorithm would take data from player locations, classes, vehicle types, spawn locations, number of players per team in each region, distance data, and the status of different game objects like shield generators, SCUs, capture points, turrets. Based on all that information, it would generate objectives that, if completed, should turn the battles in your team's favor. No communication required.
Even coordinated rushes should be possible. The program would detect an ongoing stalemate fight, and for the team with more to gain from a coordinated push, it would generate just such an objective. The coordinated push objective would be available to any player within a small radius of where it should take place. Once enough players joined the objective, a 15 second timer would start. At the end of the timer, there would be an announced countdown (3... 2... 1...) during which it would be intuitive for players to throw in those concussion grenades.
I would agree with this... but...
We have not just medics, but rather combat medics
Medic->Engy->Max is the standard fire team in a base, at the smallest level.
Current revive mechanics give the medic unequal stock in the team. Removing a member of the team should hurt it by some margin. The medic will obviously be priority 1 as they are the only one you can remove permanently until they are gone. Because of the high speed of revives, the medic is not only priority 1, but is the one and only priority. Then to top it off, they only need to play half of their class to become the most relevant player on the battlefield! Only playing the combat side is still competitive too, as they have the best weapons in the game along with the ability to carry C4 without consequence.
By lowering the speed of revives, you not only increase the relative value of other team members, but also force the combat medic to use their whole class, like everyone else has to in order to be considered an asset to the team.
Well either would do, as long as they hit their mark. EMP grenades seem to disable people's shields, effectively cutting their HP in half making them very vulnerable to a surge. Cuncussed/blinded/unshielded people go down pretty damned fast either way.
Agreed, I've always thought it was weird that medic had access to C4. Between ARs and C4, medics have incredible offensive capability, along with being the most valuable "support" member of a squad. I don't want to see ARs gimped because they're unique to medics, but something needs to change.
Rename the Medic into Necromancer, he is less about healing but more about brining back the dead in endless waves until you run out of bullets/blood and or finger to pull the trigger.
Fighting a medic with rev nades is the hardest zombie mode you will every find in a game.
After 2 revs you turn into a brainless puppet simply pulling the trigger at the sight of the firt living person while screaming in pain "laaaaaaame" and the medic in the back counts his points.
No offense medic mains.
New grenade : Rapid-Nanodesconstruction. Clear dead player's bodies and force people to respawn, prevent revives.
How about this?
Medics only revive entire squads when the enemies isn't taking ground.
If you are not gonna take an enemy position after wiping a squad then you didn't deserve to take the ground.
This system rewards speed and aggression, Punishing(except the cert gain) just sitting in cover waiting for targets of opportunity.
This is just buff hiding in cover so my sniping is more useful.
This really has been the defacto online revive mechanic in really all similar games and its not really been a balance issue.
I speak as main medic so what I say can be distorded.
This grenade is a good idea, even if it don't give xp for that.
But your idea just plug the problem. I really think planetside 2 need a better revive system.
I see a guy before speaking about wolfenstein ET and it's life/mortally wounded/dead system. Let's make the same on planetside 2 : life/dead/unrevivable body.
I'm actually working on a medic revamp (more tool, aura, agressive aura, grenade, healing grenade UP and other stuff). I'll probably post it in 10-12 hours when people won't let thread at 0 answers.
@Moisture : Planetside 2 don't reward harassing ennemy : against infantery they have medic, against vehicules they have repair tool and you don't get xp for damage a vehicule, against aircraft they have afterburner and repair tool but you get some xp.
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