Review of the Gatekeeper for Prowler [video]

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by mike196840, Oct 12, 2015.

  1. Deffington

    Wait, since when is 170 more than 284? Instead of whining, let's try to be a bit more objective and also look at the bright sight of Saron. Saron is able to unload all it's damage quickly when enemy is near, making it more flexible. If taken to math, 300 RPM is 5 shots per second. You can unload maximum of 284x6=1704 DMG in 1.2 sec. This value is unrivaled even if you don't put certs into larger mag, which seem to be a very good choice here. Do the math for certed mag. In 1.2 sec, Gatekeeper the almighty shoots three missiles for 3x170=510 DMG.

    One more time: Gatekeeper is made for sustained fire over long distance. It has no bloom, never-ending magazine and low DPS. If you let me peck your armor for a long time, you are doing it wrong.
  2. Jake the Dog

    As someone who uses tanks a little. (I mean its not like I've basically dedicated almost all of my playtime in tanks or something). The GK is the easiest weapon in the game to use with little to no downsides. While with the Saron you're constantly timing shots AND leading your target you get a reaallly low dps. With the ML86 you're dealing with 1. A ****** crosshair, 2. A **** ton of drop 3. leading targets. With the GK, you just lead your target with the highest weapon velocity of all the secondaries. While maintaining DPS at all ranges.

    Either A. Give GK ridiculous bloom like the Saron, or preferably B. Give GK a **** ton of drop and a velocity nerf.

    I get tired of having to deal with constantly taking random a$$ shots from render range from a solo harasser guy.

    On the side, buff fractures so they dont suck and make the Mjol not complete s*** on the MBT.
  3. Jake the Dog

    1.2s at vulcan/aphelion/mjolnir ranges... Other than that, it will do a single shot per second putting it below half the GKs dps, whereas the GK maintains that DPS at virtually all ranges.

    The problem isn't its dps, its how f'n easy it is too use.
  4. Deffington

    Yes, I put the best values and I wrote it there. The point is, Saron is more flexible and fits Magriders ability to show up suddenly. I'm tired of people making Saron useless in forums while it's killing in game.
  5. LodeTria

    Saron has no mag size increase, only reload speed increase.
  6. Mongychops

    Saron HRB's optimum rate of fire beyond CQC is 120 RPM (it takes 0.5 seconds for CoF to reset) and then it needs to spend half the time reloading (2.5 seconds shooting 2.5 seconds reloading), dropping the sustained RoF to 60 RPM (1 shot per second). That is if you are comparing long range with long range.

    Do you know why the Saron HRB has the CQC mag dump? Because the Prowler AP at short range has 833 DPS, compared to 574 DPS on the FPC, with an alpha of 2,500 compared to 1865. Oh, and in the last 30 days, the GK has destroyed 8847 MBTs, compared to the Saron HRB's 6219 (Prowler AP, 21822; Mag FPC 15299).
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  7. Stormsinger

    After 50-100 pages of writing on the topic, I think i'll just link a previous post that links to a few of my other relevant posts on this subject. I'm not responding specifically to your post, but rather leaving this info here for all to see.

    The post that links other posts of mine, bunch of other info.

    I shall quote parts of the post I made about DPS, specifically, from the following post.

    The Saron does 284 damage per shot at 300 RPM, 6 shots per reload, 3 second reload time.
    The Gatekeeper does 170 damage per shot at 160 RPM, 30 shots per reload, 1.75 second reload time.

    If we assume that both have been upgraded identically, that brings the Saron to 2.55 second reload, and the Gatekeeper to 1.25 second reload (The Magazine size cert option is out, since the Saron doesn't have it too.)

    Assuming that we want accurate fire, which requires waiting a half second between shots, that drops the Saron's fire rate to 120 RPM.

    I have put a graph together to illustrate a point, using the following values.
    Saron: 284 Damage a shot, 120 RPM, 2.55 second reload
    Gatekeeper: 170 damage a shot, 160 RPM, 1.25 second reload

    The graph describes 25 seconds of accurate fire from the Saron and the Gatekeeper.

    Over the first Magazine, the Saron barely, barely wins. After that, there's no contest - this is not enough shots to kill any vehicle, so even if the Saron scores 100% hit rate, the Gatekeeper wins.

    This next graph is of the Saron firing at full 300 RPM potential, which means the target must be approximately nine inches from your left nostril on a day with no wind at exactly noon to actually land all your hits, due to extreme spam-induced bloom.

    Even at point blank, with the Saron firing at it's absolute maximum, the Gatekeeper maintain's even DPS over time for the first four Saron Magazines. The sheer magazine size of the Gatekeeper means that it keeps pace with anything else out there, and the sheer velocity advantage means that it's extremely easy to hit with at any range at all. Tracking evading armor is simple, tracking evading infantry is simpler - the only thing that avoids my TR's gatekeeper reliably are Harassers and ESFs, the fastest, most agile vehicles in their respective domains.

    Bear in mind that the Prowler already had the absolute top performing, uncontested primary cannon. It's only limiting factor was the lack of a long-range top gun, which it still had access to via the Halberd. The Harasser version... Well, my TR already made her 20-30,000 certs with it already, i've funded essentially everything I was missing on my TR with this one weapon. The skill set I used on my VS's prenerf PPA was useful here, I simply perch atop a mountain and snipe at things, the velocity is nearly double the PPA had, and the Saron / Enforcer are just simply inferior. With the gatekeeper, you don't have to care about recoil, bloom, reload speed... and the only thing that typically chases me off my perch is angry light assaults dropping from ESFs. Ammo is a concern, but the reserve ammo is comparable to what the PPA had, but I do have to go back for more somewhat often.
  8. moriarrr-ceres

    add bloom to reduce damage at a too far distance(maybe the rockets can disappear like a av mana turret), and add a 4 rocket burst when you charge it (or maybe a fire mode?)
  9. Stormsinger

    I like the idea of a very small initial CoF / bloom, similar in style to the Kobalt. A small cap on bloom will still allow it to be used with accuracy, while keeping it's sustain DPS in check. Also, 500 m/s projectile velocity is faster then the Saron / Enforcer by 200 m/s, there's absolutely no justification for this.

    The Designer (BBurness, I believe) Even stated that he thought this was overpowered prior to releasing the weapon, but deadlines forced them to release as-is, rather then making final alterations. Source:

    The quote, for the lazy.
    Even 360 m/s (the original velocity) is still 60 m/s faster then what anyone else gets, but I believe that bit of extra is justified given the lesser damage per shot. 500 m/s removes drop, which is unacceptable, given what VS weapons give up for the same trait. (I'm fairly certain that the TR would be justifiably angry if VS small arms were given an extra 5-20 rounds per reload without the extra reload time or horizontal recoil that comes with the additional rounds. Same concept. )
  10. CMDante

    Vanu talking about something being too easy, my ******* sides.

    Tone down sniper lancers and vortices, then we'll talk about the GK. Not a second before.
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  11. RedArmy

    atleast now NC feel what we do with the Ravens
  12. mike196840

    I would like to thanks all of you guys for commenting I hope my videos are a catalyst for debate and learning. I will say this both you guys are making good points one thing you do have to remember is there are certain things in each faction that are op. Scat maxes the vanu(jk but you guys have no bullet drop and awsome sh$*) and now sorta the gatekeeper. I still however have not seen the gate keeper make as much impact on gameplay as let say scat maxes. In my opinion thats because a lot of TR guys still like there old favs vulcan/marauder. We will see what time will tell for the GK sometimes the devs will nerf stuff over time (cough cough TMG) or sometimes they will let it be (cough ALL HAIL MALORN And HIS CARV Ways). So I think it will be definitely an interesting fate to see what happens.
  13. PostalDude

    Forumside stop giving me cancer.

    When will you scrubs quit whining about the Gatekeeper and focus on issues that matter:

    -Lack of Content
    -Lack of Depth
    -New players are still plebians, and aren't trained
    - Vanu Overperformance
    -TR underperformance
  14. Villanuk

    Isnt their where your Ravens and Phoenix camp but further back where you cant be countered??
  15. moriarrr-ceres

    I'm all for more content/performance, but don't tell me you like long range camping like at QuartzRidge, when nothing happens the next 5 hours.
  16. JojoTheSlayer

    Nope, because the Raven has limited range before the missiles just disappear.
    I have twin Ravens and I have been in TR Harasser Gatekeeper "duals" between mountains, but the issue is.
    They hit us, but we can physically not hit them because the missiles dont reach that far. Ravens also have longer travel time and shorter fire speed as well, not that it matters. Oh and just for the record. I am not saying the Raven should have its range extended. It is limited in that way to be balanced. I am saying the Gate Keeper needs a balance because its basically a weapon that works towards everything, is super easy to use and on top of that have a longer EFFECTIVE range than any other weapon ingame.
  17. Stormsinger

    Vortexes have fewer average users then Fractures, that should say something. Yep, Lancers are insanely potent against vehicles, and entirely useless against infantry... which is why there are more strikers in use in the last 30 days then there are lancers (No, that does not mean that Strikers are fine, but Lancers aren't used due to absolute uselessness versus infantry). The Lancer is potent, but is generally a niche weapon, as it's only really good versus Vehicles at 200+ meters. When HA's aren't already carrying them, there's rarely time to go grab one before the fight is already over, or the vehicles have drawn close enough to surround the base, making any other launcher a better pick. Very few VS actually bother to bring these things along.

    As for Lancers, I wouldn't mind seeing their max range brought down from 750 to ~500-600. Gatekeepers ... to avoid launching into another massive analysis, I'll just say that my opinion on them is probably fairly well known. The +200m/s projectile velocity, complete lack of recoil, bloom, CoF, drop... There's no comparison (Even the designer stated that this was OP before release, but time ran out to make further changes. I expect the nerf hammer once current development efforts are over.) and the stats that Gatekeepers are generating are worlds superior then the performance stats any single VS item, save for the Betelgeuse, which needs the nerf-anvil treatment.

    Compare the Marauder to the PPA, and the Prowler Primary to Magrider primaries. Literally the only place where VS are performing well is LMGs. That's it. Nothing else. No other weapon class matches the TR / NC. Not even the Orion can stack up against the MSW-R or Anchor, only the fact that the Orion is free, thus has an extremely high user base is propping up the VS as a faction. Even the L-PPA is eclipsed by Hellfires, else that would be a second category where the VS have an advantage - the Banshee, while overnerfed, was easily replaced by another weapon for the same vehicle.

    Here's my source, please tell me if I missed something. -
    KPU is best for vehicle weapons
    KPH and KPU are good for infantry weapons (Although KPH is less reliable for rocket launchers and pistols)
    V-KPU is good for all vehicle weapons
    V-KPH is good for always-manned weapon types such as MBT primaries, but extremely unreliable for secondaries, as time spent with weapons manned is all that's counted and compared to kills.

    If you can find a category where the VS are #1 overall in terms of KPU in a given weapon category other then LMGs, with a significant user base (not directive weapons, must have 250+ average users) I'll buy some DBC and send you the code, or buy you a game on steam, either works.

    Let me know what you find.
  18. CMDante

    Assault Rifles



    And yes, LMGs, though not the one you'd expect.


    So this data shows that VS have the highest Average KPU across all three "standard" infantry weapons. Worth pointing out that their directive pistol also has the highest AKPU, as does their directive shotgun.
  19. Stormsinger

    Notice that I said with "A significant user base" over 250 users, specifically - that few users for the Solstice / Equinox Burst doesn't matter enough to make a widescale impact, and carbines are generally the most balanced gun type. The betelgeuse is indeed absolutely insane, and needs nerf. Apart from that outlier, the total amount of users in the top categories here for the VS in Assault rifles / Carbines you point out don't even account for 10% of the total VS users in their respective categories. They may be effective on an individual basis, but there's so few people using them that they don't have much of an affect at all. We're looking at an Empire Wide advantage here - that's what the Orion represents, that's what the Gatekeeper represents, for that matter. The VS only has LMGs, the TR has multiple examples, as does the NC.
  20. axiom537

    LOL...You have it backwards. It takes half the skill to aim two shots, because you can use the first shot as a guide, then adjust and hit with the second shot, and with the prowlers faster reload its even easier to adjust for each double shot afterwards. Where if you were in a Vanguard, you would take a shot, if you missed then need to wait 4 secs for the reload, then adjust and hope the target hasn't moved at all and your adjustment is correct otherwise it is another 4 sec reload.

    The Prowler is already the undisputed king of range, the gatekeeper simply compounds the issue.

    The gatekeeper needs its velocity reduced to that of the other AV secondaries, that should should increase its drop at range, which is turn will make more comparable to the other AV secondaries.
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