[BUG] Return the Orion's .75 ADS or give it SPA

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by SpeedFreakPS1, Aug 3, 2016.

  1. ColonelChingles

    I do distinctly remember these arguements. :p It's the same with no bullet drop. Often claimed to have no impact whatsoever, but then defended when people just shrug and say, "well then why not take it away?"
    • Up x 5
  2. Gundem

    Okay then:

    Take it away. Give us something useful like no long reloads. The lack of bullet drop only on weapons where bullet drop doesn't matter has no impact.
  3. ColonelChingles

    But if it had no impact on the performance of the weapons it was attached to, why would you get anything "useful" in return?

    Let's say that a VS weapon has a "value" of 50. And the no bullet drop trait, being admittedly useless, has a value of 0.

    If we take away the no bullet drop trait from VS weapons, the value of the VS weapons does not change. 50-0=50

    So it doesn't make sense to give the VS anything back. Say the no long reload trait was worth 5. After taking away the no bullet drop trait and giving them the no long reload trait, the VS will actually be better off. 50-0+5=55, 55>50

    This is why it makes sense to just remove the no bullet drop trait from VS weapons and give them nothing in return. It would still be as balanced of a weapon as it was before, assuming that the no bullet drop trait has no impact as you say.
    • Up x 3
  4. SpeedFreakPS1

    Yep, ask yourself when has bullet drop mattered on an lmg, smg or carbine and you have your answer.
  5. JKomm

    You'd want no long reloads despite your faction have the lowest overall reload times? This is the problem with Vanu, you have no definitive faction trait, so you feel entitled to getting completely unique traits that no one else could ever get... no long reload, no bullet drop, heat mechanics... these are all extremely powerful and unique traits the other factions cannot even replicate. Look at NC then, high damage and high recoil... TR have weapons like this... look at TR, high rate of fire and large magazines... NC and VS have weapons like this. They can be replicated, yet VS get a very unique set of traits that no other faction can obtain.
    • Up x 2
  6. Insignus

    Hey. Hey. HEY! Wait a minute!

    You tell me where EXACTLY in the lore it says that special snowflakes can't be purple!

    Without unique traits, the Vanu can't very well hop on forumside and complain that their weapons are UP, now can they?

    Allow me to summarize:

    "NC and TR both have X and X, therefore we also should have X and X"

    "Can they have heat mechanics, then, on a single weapon, such as a a laser pistol or something?"


    "But why?"


    "But if its unique, then how is a plasma weapon supposed to have soft-point ammunition for plasma balls that yields identical results to weapons that use ballistic ammunition? Does that not then imply that all faction weapons are really just clones of each other with tweaked stats that fall into specific statistical ranges designed to create play-styles niches according to a class based ruleset of intended gameplay dynamics?""

    • Up x 2
  7. truthnreconciliation

    That's a gross understatement.

    If we're talking about the 40-round weapons we're looking at:

    Trac-5: 2.6s short, 3.7s long
    Solstice VE3: 1.65s short, 2.28s long

    That's a range of ~.9s to 1.4s for the starters. The Solstice has way better up time and it can shoot more bullets in a minute than the Trac-5 can.

    T5 AMC: 2.265s short, 3.13s long
    Pulsar-C: 1.67s short, 2.6s long

    Still no where near <1/10th of a second.

    Looks like the only real exception is the Lynx vs Serpent. Also, AR's look like the same story, so not going to bother with any examples.
  8. Scr1nRusher

    VS = Space SJW's for Vanu.

  9. asmodraxus

    Well if we aren't going to replace the nearly useless no bullet drop for the VS and just remove it how aout removing the nearly useless 200 damage bullet tier for NC and the 40 round clip size for TR?

    No bullet drop is only usefull on the Spectre (SASR), Lancer, Vortex (despite it being the least used max AV), Phasexcrement (see spectre) and Saron. Thats it 5 weapons.

    Heat mechanic is on 4 weapons including the phasexcrement, the weapon that has almost as many users as the holiday pistols.

    40 round clip size is usefull on all TR assault rifles and carbines all 16 or them, I guess a case could also be made for the pistols and SMG's also getting a clip size reduction.
  10. Pat22

    Great, now do the same comparison with NC weapons.
  11. kr47er

    m8, just saying, the auraxium LMG on vanu has no need to reload...just saying
  12. wolf113

    Orion is a good weapon the way it is. I was way better than the others start lmg.
    Let's compare the NC SAV with Oraion, precise easier to control which is not logical., 500rpm with a weapon should be more accurate than 750rpm, the average accuracy of 21% a SAW orion 24%. in a duel of two players SAW users must be more precise than Orrion users to get the fight.
    If we take the 21% precision SAW user has to fire 24 rounds TK 2.9 seconds, 24% precision orion user has to fire 30 TK 2.4 seconds.
    Now we'll take that resist shield and armor nanoweave
    Nanoweave armor increases 40% TTK 4.44 seconds SAW, Orion 28% of TTK 3.84 seconds. resist shield 80% of TTK SAW 5.22 seconds oraion 71% TTK 4.1 seconds.
    To get a fight SAW user must have preczinost 30% to achieve a result as ORION.

    When you look at this is that now the weapon should be improved.

    1. 143dmg 10m, 1000hp/143= 6.9 bullets to Kill
    2.200dmg 10m 1000hp/200= 5 bullets to kill
    Nanoweave armor.
    1. 143dmg 10m, 143-20% (28.6) = 114,4 dmg 1000hp/114.4= 8.7 bullets to kill
    2. 200dmg 10 m,200-20% (40.0)= 160dmg, 1000hp/160dmg = 6.25 bullets to kill
    Nanoweave armor increases two rounds for both weapons to kill.
    TTK has increased
    1.NO N.armor 7 to N.Armor 9 , TTK has increased for 28.6%
    2.NO N.armor 5 to N.armor 7 , TTK has increased for 40.0 %
  13. asmodraxus

    Orion is a CQC LMG
    Gauss Saw is not a CQC LMG

    Orion is in the same bracket as the Anchor and MSW-R Orion by the way is the worst performing LMG out of the three.

    Otherwise should we compare the starter sniper rifles

    Expect a nerf incoming to the boltdriver as its the best one compared to the Spectre and the semi auto sniper that the TR get.

    Should we compare the starter max weapons as well? Splatter cannon nerf request incoming in 5,4,3,2,1...
  14. SpeedFreakPS1

    VS either need a non-starter CQC lmg that would then be in the league of the Anchor and MSW or give it access to SPA the way the Gauss has access to HVA
  15. ColonelChingles

    On the other hand, they are both starter weapons.

    Quasar VM1 (L)- 18.55
    M1 Heavy Cycler (L)- 17.76
    NCM1 Scattercannon (L)- 16.88

    If anything, the Scattercannon needs a buff, not a nerf. It underperforms compared to the starter VS and TR options, who have the ability to not be useless at range.
  16. H4YW1R3

    Just because they're faction starting weapons does not mean that they are faction equivalents. Comparing the Orion to the Gauss SAW is like comparing the NC infiltrator's starting BA sniper rifle to the VS and TR infiltrator's starting SA sniper rifles. The Orion should be compared to faction equivalents, which are the LA1 Anchor for NC and the MSW-R for TR.


  17. JKomm

    Also, NC MAX AI weapons are literally identical to infantry shotguns, in fact worse due to the longer reloads. Only unique one is the Mattock having a 2.5 spread... other than that: Grinder = Sweeper, Scattercannon = Mauler, and Hacksaw = Piston. Best way to buff each of these weapons... make them all Automatic. Semi-automatic is quite detrimental in this game and yet NC gets the most semi-automatic weapons. As well they could do with larger magazines... why do these massive, multi-barrel shotguns have the same capacity as handheld infantry shotguns? They should be at least double the size... I'd even settle for lesser damage per pellet but they need larger magazines.
  18. Insignus

    I think that'd require a good bit of rebalancing work. Could we instead pick one or two of the NC AI Max shotguns and test the larger mag/lower damage mechanic?

    Alternatively, would you accept a nano-metal energy sword in the utility slot that you can use with the shield? I ask because I'd like a justification to request a laser combi-spear for my TR MAX.....
  19. LaughingDead

    I think that all the weapons are viable, why exactly would orion really need SPA or a .75 ADS? Why does VS and TR need a starter bolt action? Who decided that these weapons were automatically worse because they were different?
    I'm not going to say that the gauss saw isn't a good weapon because x x and x but if the TRand VS are dealt a "bad" card with snipers, why shouldn't the NC have this "bad" starter?

    Thank god someone caught on. Also mjolnir is actually just a remodeled hacksaw.
  20. JKomm

    The one that would need it the most is the Grinder, being it is the "high capacity" variant for our faction yet only has 2 more shells than every other model... whereas TR's may get 50 more rounds than the next highest version. I say we Balance the Grinder to be 100 damage per pellet, 16 shells(20 with extended mags) in the magazine, and give it full auto, but I say leave it's RPM the same if not even lowered to compensate.

    As for a sword... no, many people want MAX melee weapons but I think when they come one of two thing will be apparent... they are overpowered, or just not worth it. It would make sense with the Aegis Shield but that'd require lots of coding to allow the shield and a melee weapon to coexist.