[BUG] Return the Orion's .75 ADS or give it SPA

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by SpeedFreakPS1, Aug 3, 2016.

  1. D4rk50ul

    Again we are comparing a starter weapon versus a weapon purchased with certs. Do any starters get SPA? If one should they all should.


    Hip Aim
    Crouch Still: 2.25 0.1
    Move: 2.75 0.2
    Stand Still: 2.5 0.1
    Move: 3.25 0.4
    Bloom per Shot: 0.1 0.04
    Vertical: 0.4
    Horizontal, Min/Max: 0.22/0.22
    Horizontal Tolerance: 0.8
    Angle Min/Max: 0°/0°
    Bias: ← = →
    Recoil Decrease: 13
    First Shot Recoil Multiplier: 2.25x


    Hip Aim
    Crouch Still: 2.25 0.1
    Move: 2.75 0.2
    Stand Still: 2.75 0.1
    Move: 3.5 0.35
    Bloom per Shot: 0.1 0.05
    Vertical: 0.35
    Horizontal, Min/Max: 0.225/0.225
    Horizontal Tolerance: 0.55
    Angle Min/Max: 17°/20°
    Bias: →
    Recoil Decrease: 13
    First Shot Recoil Multiplier: 2.5x

    They are very similar in stats except for one is paid for and gets access to attachments while the other you get as a starter. Also the Orion has superior recoil pattern and handling. So what you want is to have the only starter weapon with access to attachments that normally you have to upgrade your gun to get?
  2. ridicOne

    So basically the same thing you just did?

    The game is 4 years old with videos everywhere, posting stats means only so much because It just shows kills. What would you like me to delve into?
  3. SpeedFreakPS1

    I posted the stats already, the Orion is ranked the 3rd worst in kph
  4. Eternaloptimist

    Simply put, none of the default LMGs have the option to equip SPA. So the comparison between Orion and MSW-R is not terribly applicable.

    You can cert into other faction LMGs as well as into the MSW-R. I can't recall offhand if things like the Pulsar LMG can equip SPA, or what the SVA and Flare can equip.
  5. SpeedFreakPS1

  6. SpeedFreakPS1

    I provided the stats via the OoD site which I wasn't aware of until yesterday which supports my argument, so what I do have is factual basis sorry
  7. DrakeFang

    So your not going to address my points then. That's too bad. I really hate winning arguments by default.
  8. D.M.B.-681

    TL,DR: Keep dreaming
  9. ColonelChingles

    Except still better than TR and NC starter options. ;) Making it the best option available for a faction.

    Sure the Orion has the best KPH option for the VS... if you ignore every other VS LMG except the Orion. In other words every other VS LMG performs better KPH-wise than the Orion.

    The stats actually prove you completely wrong. Everything you said has been completely contradicted by the stats.
  10. St0mpy

    No you dont. Have you ever heard of smoothing?

    How about you resort your chart to display only BR100+ KPH to make it more fair? Compare like with like rather than get lost in sample size arguments.

    Its clear youve chosen the all BR chart because it suits your crusade but if you resorted that same data and read how BR100+ use the weapon(s) youll find its 13th/25 and the tight band between carv, saw and orion is just 4 points wide.

    So feel free to keep sorting the data till you find something that looks like itll support your argument but when we look at how reasonably skilled people (BR100+) use the same three weapons the difference is small.
  11. Scr1nRusher

    FriendlyPS4 is that you????????????????????????
  12. orangejedi829

    Yes, the Orion is 3rd worst. And you know which ones are 2nd and 1st-worst? The other factions' starter LMGs: the CARV and SAW.
  13. Gundem

    Comparing the stats is a good idea(Something I've been waiting for anyone here to do yet), but you can't compare starter weapons. There is a recognizable algorithm for weapons that can be followed for all three factions, with adjustments based on faction ideology.

    Anchor: MSW-R: Orion; All three faction's CQC LMG's. The Orion does not have access to an Adv. Laser or SPA.

    EM6: T9-CARV: SVA-88; High Capacity LMG's. VS's has slower RoF for higher velocity.

    GD-22S: T32 Bull: Flare; Midrange Support LMG's. Access to both SPA and HVA, the Bull is the outlier but attachment options give it away.

    Gauss SAW*: TMG-50: Ursa; Long-Range LMG's. Combine high damage per bullet with HVA, but overall lower DPS then their piers.

    EM1: Rhino: Polaris; Midrange Support LMG's(Aka Baby NS-15's). Many players don't realize that statistically these three weapons are basically identical, with a damage model of 143@600RPM up to 20 meters and nearly identical velocity across the board.

    Gauss SAW-S: T9-CARV-S: Pulsar LSW; High-Cap Support LMG's. With Extended Mags available, these LMG's sacrifice RoF for attachment options and hipfire accuracy.

    And finally the seventh LMG is the NS-15M.

    So in reality, a few LMG's are missing attachments. But to the point of the thread, the Orion is indeed missing SPA, but it also needs to not be the starter weapon, something I personally think should be the SVA-88 for the VS and the EM6 for the NC. These LMG's combine large magazines and decent RoF to properly introduce the new player to the Heavy Assault class.

    *The Gauss SAW is unique in that it's the only starter weapon in the entire game that has access to an advanced attachment, something I believe further solidifies the notion that the Gauss SAW should not be the NC's starter LMG.

    A few interesting things to note: The VS have no LMG's that can access an Advanced Forward Grip, the TR have one, and the NC have 2 different LMG's that can.
    • Up x 4
  14. Naaahhhhh

    I was not asking for kph. You cant balance a weapon on kph because there are more factors that play a roll for kph. Like how many ppl use this weapon? which lvl they are. I want a comparrison between MSW-R and Orion for. Dmg, Dmg drop off, fire rate, recoil, bloom increase per shot, first shot multiplier, recoil angel, bullet speed, cof (standing, crouching, running, ads), ttk, mag size, reload time, attachment options and so on.
    I do it myself if someone can say me where I can find this data.
    • Up x 2
  15. SpeedFreakPS1

    The Orion is the 3rd most used lmg with the 3rd worst kph, the table is listed on that link and very easy to follow
  16. ColonelChingles

    And the Gauss SAW is the most used LMG with the 2d worst KPH.
    The CARV is the 2d most used LMG with the 1st worst KPH.

    The VS have it much easier than the NC or TR. That's what the statistics show. The Orion is better than the SAW or CARV, so there is no point in buffing it unless the SAW and CARV get even greater buffs.
  17. SpeedFreakPS1

    But yes this should be restructured in the sense that the Orion is really the best LMG and it's a starter weapon and is limited by that

    In comparison the other factions have better options to fit the CQC slot while the VS have none and like I said the Orion is a poor mans MSW-R since it can't equip SPA

    I feel the NC could also use a buff in this area but then again my NC char is only BR 40 so don't have as much playtime; however, my long experience with VS and my shorter experience with TR using the MSW-R annoys me the most since the MSW-R with SPA gives me such an advantage over the Orion
  18. Naaahhhhh

    Do you even read or do you just heavily breathing while you angry typing on your keyboard?
    Everyone wants balanced weapon but there is no point in giving the orion spa as long as nc and tr havent the cqc lgms as default.
  19. orangejedi829

    Orion has the highest KPH of all three starter LMGs. And you're asking for a buff?
    For realsies?
  20. SpeedFreakPS1

    I'm saying that it the best option the VS have CQC and is the worst performing compared to the other two factions best CQC options

    The .75 ADS made it more viable