Rest in Peace, Shotguns.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Gundem, Nov 29, 2016.

  1. ackerx

    Wait. If they made shotguns more range and need more pellets to kill wouldn't that make Baron better than ANY Shotguns?

    Since Baron have a larger cone of fire and pellets spread less than other guns and range is a bit far then other shotguns
  2. CapEnTrade

    Say they want to extend the range (while ****** the close up performance)
    • Up x 1
  3. Liewec123

    as someone who has auraxed mauler, bruiser, claw, sweeper, piston, jackhammer twice and very nearly Brawler and mag-scatter
    i feel like i do infact know what i'm talking about...

    and i've tested them on PTS too,
    it is pretty common with the PTS versions to be standing 5-7m away looking directly at the target
    and still ending up with a 3 shot kill, this should never be the case.

    this is due to a 2 shot kill requiring almost all of the pellets to hit now, 10 of the 12.
    if you can't see how this is going to make 2 shot kills far less likely than they are currently
    then it is you who don't know what you're talking about.

    HOWEVER, slugs currently haven't had a damage nerf, so you can equip slugs to get around this.

    don't think it is all doom and gloom in my eyes, i even made a thread thanking DBG for the good changes to shotguns.
    • Up x 1
  4. Demigan

    I also just went on PTS.

    Average TTK for killing a non-moving target while using ADS and perfect accuracy on the torso: 6 to 10 shots, most of the time it was just 8 shots flat.

    That's a TTK of 2,1 seconds flat and a nearly empty barrel assuming you fired them all in one go instead of firing them one at a time in perfect conditions and assuming RNGesus was in your favor during your unload. In the meantime weapons like Carbines/LMG's/AR's barely even start to become less effective and have TTK's well below the second.
    A few tries firing as fast as possible in ADS resulted in around 8 to 10 shots per kill, meaning you empty your magazine (assuming you don't use the extended magazine) for a single kill on 20m, while still being completely at a disadvantage.
    The spread improvement while ADS is marginal at best. I usually got the same 8 to 10 shots per kill when hipfiring, making the use of ADS a liability as you only slow yourself down for easier target practice by your enemy, giving them even better odds at killing you before you get close to killing them.
    In the meantime the damage has been altered so that you can't OHK anymore with a headshot. One full headshot deals 900 damage, just enough to kill an Infiltrator. But ofcourse people don't tend to stand still and wait for you to headshot them and since you have to aim slightly upwards from knifing distance it's easy to accidentally hit the chest with a few shots, meaning even the infiltrator is likely to survive a full headshot from CQC distance.

    So all in all shotguns do get more range and better capabilities to actually kill something, but the TTK is so incredibly low and the range effectively still so short that it's not really worth using for longer ranges anyway and you might as well have stuck with the old shotguns. In closer ranges there's less RNGesus and a more consistent TTK. However since missing a single pellet with each shot puts your TTK higher than that of Carbines a shotgun is essentially worthless at it's role since even with pinpoint accuracy there's still a high chance that RNGesus sends a single pellet off target every time.
    Actually they've done it. Shotguns are now 100% a noob weapon like everyone claims. If you can't aim and your enemy can't aim you can hit them more often due to the pellet spread, but there's no way to really excel with shotguns as the minimum amount of shots required is 2 shots now which barely gives you a better TTK than Carbines. In the meantime Carbines are much easier to use at multiple ranges.

    Edit: Well it's not 100% a noob weapon. Keep in mind that to make a shotgun work well you still need to have an intimate knowledge of the terrain and how players move about, even with the new range buff. Since even with the new range buff you are still at a disadvantage at short ranges (we are talking just 10 to 20m here!) and even in extreme CQC, where the shotgun should shine brightest, the shotgun can barely hold it's own and come out on top compared to weapons like Carbines.
  5. YouWannaGetHigh

    The f*ck are you talking about? You are able to kill targets in 8 shells? Let me tell you what EXACTLY happens;
    You poke a heavy assault with a shotgun at 20-30 meters. He turns around. You are dead.
    How am I supposed to fire 8 f*cking shells to a heavy assault without him realizing that I'm there and killing me with his 0.4 TTK LMG? Shotguns are close range weapons. Nobody wanted them to have range, nor they asked for it. While they're at it they might as well lower the long range capabilities of all sniper rifles to add them some close quarters combat power. The f*ck is this?
    • Up x 3
  6. Niamar

    Maybe they should leave the shotgun the way it was and make the directive weapon have alternate fire that switches from buckshot to slugs.

    I'll try the slugs, but occasionally beating those that use 3rd party aim and awareness will be a thing of the past. So once again they are catering to the cheaters.
    • Up x 1
  7. Demigan

    I asked for longer range on shotguns. Shotguns are the only weapon that can't compensate for range. With a CQC Carbine or LMG you can still use trigger discipline to at least be somewhat effective at range, you can't do that with a shotgun. One of my idea's was to swap ammo from pellets to slugs whenever you ADS. That would still put shotguns below par at range but allow players to use skill (!!) to compensate for engagements outside of the ideal shotgun range.
  8. YouWannaGetHigh

    You're saying that Carbines/LMGs can at least be useful in range with trigger discipline. But devs didn't nerf them to make that possible.
    Devs nerfed shotguns' actual effective range to add more range to it, this is not the same case.

    Edit: Also your suggestion actually makes sense and it is in fact a buff. But that'll probably piss off the shotgun whiners even more because they would have long range potential while maintaining close quarters potential.
  9. FateJH

    Something seems inaccurate about the terminology in this thread. It feels like someone people are talking in terms of pellets and others are talking in terms of shells.
  10. YouWannaGetHigh

    So? Are we supposed to go 8x6=48 pellets instead of 8 shells? He was talking about ranged combat, so 1 shell isnt enough to kill a guy, on close quarters, ofc we will talk about pellets.
  11. LaughingDead

    I'd also like to point out, none of this was tested on regular players.
    Aka bots without nanoweave, without shields, without weapons, without common sense to move.
  12. TheSunlikeOne

    Well, we've tested JH against HA with nanoweave and Adrenaline shields. You can't kill him with a single birst EVEN if you hit with every single pellet. With resist shield you need to have Aux Shield too, if you want to survive.

    Now the good news - damage nerf on it was reverted. Only pellet count nerf is still in place.
  13. LaughingDead

    Thats still only 60 damage a shot. So unless that 180 in a burst is suddenly lethal it's still terrible.
  14. FateJH

    Eight shells are different from eight pellets; and, saying "shots" doesn't distinguish one or the other.
  15. YouWannaGetHigh

    From my reply it is pretty clear that I know the difference between pellets and shells therefore the first part of your reply is unnecessary. And so, what we said makes sense. It took him 8 shells to kill a guy 30 meters away, meaning 8 shots.
    Each shell has different amounts of pellets (edit: by each shell has dif amounts of pellets, I mean for different shotguns, not for the same shotgun), so when talking close quarters, pellets are more important. In his example that I replied to, he was talking about shells, meaning shots.
    Why are you making me repeat myself?
  16. FateJH

    You repeated yourself on your own initiative. You've also always used "shells" or "pellets" respectively in this thread so my initial comment about "shots" was never something that would have affected what you were saying.
  17. YouWannaGetHigh

    You, for no reason at all, said this "Eight shells are different from eight pellets". Also 'shots' is identical to 'shells' in the case of shotguns because you fire 1 shell per 1 shot. I don't get your point, what are you implying?
  18. Daigons

    So can Infiltrators start using shotguns since they've been adjusted?
    • Up x 2
  19. Demigan

    Yes that's true, and that's why the shotgun change sucks.

    It's as if they had this CQC Carbine that was mediocre at it's CQC job but completely lacked in ranged capabilities. Then they upgraded it's ranged capabilities from "don't try it" to "abysmal but you could be lucky". But someone then said "but now that it's somewhat closer to other weapons we need to screw it over and nerf it's CQC capabilities".
    So now said CQC Carbine is more often than not worse at CQC than other weapons and still terrible at range.

    Shotgun whiners should be pissed off. If you have so little knowledge of shotguns and whine about them you should be pissed until you learn better. Complaints about shotguns that OHK, which is one of the most skillful feats you can pull off in the game if you don't use a PA, or that they assume that almost every engagement is perfect shotgun range and other kinds of crap all indicate that they whine about things they know next to nothing about.
    • Up x 1
  20. Inzababa

    they wanted to increase the range and "skill" requirement to use shotguns

    why not allow us to use switch from slugs to pellets by pressing "b" as a kind of firing mode? (slugs = long range, pellets = short).

    As to the short range damage nerf, it's people crying beacuse they got one shotted as soon as they turned a corn and came head to toe with an enemy shotgun user.

    Thing is, from 2012 or rather 2013 to recently, THAT WAS EXACTLY HOW SHOTGUNS WERE INTENDED TO WORK.

    I don't get how things are being changed now that were left alone for years and most people were perfectly happy with.

    It's almost like a DB intern kid was told to stop wasting his time at work so he quickly picks any random item in the game and modifies it, to show his boss he's been working hard.

    It's really not the kind of thing that could have been thought out and discussed properly by experienced professionals who understand the game inside out.
    • Up x 1