Resource changes - Nanite costs from test

60

I don't think suicide ESF spam is a bad issue right now. ESF suicides are pretty useless as a whole anyway. I would rather see new ESF pilots willing to get up there and learn. Veteran ESF pilots have lifespans that won't be impacted much by vehicle cost.

This is what absolutely ruins the game though.

C4 > Tank > Max Suit > C4 > Medkit > Medkit > Medkit > Medkit >tank mines >C4 > ESF > Tank > C4 > Max Suit all in the span of like 5-10 minutes, That's ******* insane.

There should be a limit of what a single person can do in a timespan. Removal of infantry inventory is a big step in that direction, the added combination of everything should greatly benefit specialization while minimizing rapid diversity.

If you want to be a jack of all trades prepare to finally be a master of none.

Stop.

If you catch yourself saying such a phrase there is a really good chance you are about to make a straw man argument...

We'll need to agree to disagree here. I'm well aware of the strengths of MAXes. It was one of the first things I fully certed (playing since beta). I do not feel they are overpowered.

Half the time I hit a MAX with a deci, he's already taken some damage and he dies from one. Also, I'm not talking 1 vs 1 here, obviously one has cost and one doesn't. AT grenades work great as well.

This can only end in tears.

To perform the faux pas of quoting myself:

And really, MAX could use a decrease too considering its counter only costs 90.

What the heck are you guys doing against MAX units? I've never had much difficulty with them. Played most of my time as a heavy. I've taken them out with a freaking warden. A rocket kills a MAX, on C4 kills a MAX. Concentrated fire kills a MAX. A grenade and some bullets kill a MAX. They are tough, sure, but definitely not "uncounterable". Don't walk up and hug them and you'll be fine.

That's only on earned certs. If you get refunded, the refund can put you over that limit, you just won't be able to earn any more certs until you spend enough to put you under 10k.

Flashes should be 60.

I mean honestly now.


Also they should have passive turbo.

Aside from much of that being wrong, two players to take out a MAX is why it costs resources in the first place. How many people does it take to nuke a tank?

But in truth, it doesn't take two players. It takes a smart player who doesn't shoot a max in the face with a rocket and wait to be run over. Not to mention, unless that MAX has an engineer hugging his tail, you probably aren't going to meet one at full health.

Thanks. How about healing / revive grenades and med / resto kits?

Looks in the right ballpark but there are a few oddities. Flash and EMP are more potent against enemies than Smoke and Decoy, so they should cost more. No way should a Sunderer be so cheap! Harassers aren't that much worse off than a Lightning for a 4 min cost, plus the driver and gunner can alternate pulling it. MAX and Lightning might be okay where they are but I'm leaning toward slightly cheaper.

Costs I'd rather try:

20 = Smoke / Decoy
40 = Flash grenade / EMP grenade / Healing grenade / Medical kit / Restoration kit
60 = Frag / Sticky / AV grenade
80 = Prox mine / Tank mine / Conc grenade
100 = C4 / Revive grenade / Flash
300 = Harasser
360 = MAX / Lightning
420 = Sunderer / ESF
540 = Lib / MBT / Galaxy

Do we know the current cost they set for med kits?

I see self repairing Sunderer trains of like 9+ Sunderers becoming really popular. The great Sunderer wars of 2014, when Sunderers blotted out the sun and we fought in eternal darkness... shadowy little Vanu everywhere.

I just realized how much medkits are going to drown my Nanites....welp, looks like I'm going to be gunning more Vanguards instead of pulling Lightnings because I can't afford it after I pull say 1 ESF to have a bit of fun in.

It seems like this is going to make F2P members specialize more than members, they'll actually be able to afford quite a bit more.

I think trying Sundies at 240 will actually be pretty interesting. I know for myself that I don't pull them too much because I know they're short lived and I won't have another one for 15 min. Battles where the outcome is actually fighting back instead of a single Sundy snipe will be illuminating, if not a permanent fixture.

I'd also keep the Harasser, Lightning and ESF < 300. Ideally they'll be slightly less than half the MBT/Lib. That does mean that Harassers would both be cheap and benefit from rotating crew, but they're in a spot right now where I don't think I'd mind seeing a half dozen of them buzzing around battles constantly.

MAX at 6 min and C4 at 1.5 min? I think you could stand to drop the MAX a bit still.

Again, this is all just skill difference. With a same-skill opponent MAX, they have an unbeatable advantage (which is why you see the best organized outfits run very MAX-heavy especially in organized play; because they understand this advantage.)

If an opponent plays especially smart, they'll force me to burn Charge closing the distance (to "hugging" range). But either way, I'm going to be on top of them and earn about 2x the K/D of my next-best class.

This isn't some subjective opinion. The objective stats back this up. Out of ~24 players' stats I've looked up I think there was only one player whose MAX K/D wasn't double their next-best infantry class. That's a huge advantage. Post up your character name(s) and we'll add to the growing pile of objective data which shows MAXes to have substantial KPH, K/D, and SPM advantages over the other classes.

So what are you saying? I mean...obviously he got the damage from somewhere and most of the time it's going to be from the 2-3 teammates of yours he just finished killing.

Again, MAXes being overpowered doesn't mean they're invincible. Just because sometimes you stumble upon a half-dead MAX that really has no relevance to their being overpowered.

Paying to be overpowered doesn't prevent me from being overpowered. It just means I paid, and now I'm overpowered.

It takes one player to kill a tank: with equal skill, one player in an ESF kills one player in a tank.

With equal skill, one HA will not beat a MAX.

If I produce a video of a skilled player using a knife to kill players with LMGs/carbines, that doesn't mean the balance of those weapons is equal. It means that a player is using skill to overcome the limitations of their weaponry. You can't use that as evidence in a balance discussion about Knives vs. Rifles, because the video isn't showing weapon imbalance it's showing skill imbalance.

The same is true of anecdotal data of players beating MAXes. When skill is factored out, the MAX wins. With two same-skill combatants, the MAX has a massive TTK advantage over the infantry and will beat him 8+ times out of 10.

This is why objective player stats almost universally show higher K/D, KPH, and SPM with MAXes.

I liked being able to pull harassers in rapid succession after flipping. I don't like the loss of the player inventory for deployables though.

I'm not sure you want to bring ESFs into a discussion about "one skilled player takes them out". Sure, a lucky shot can take one down but an ESF is capable of way more destruction on a group of infantry than a MAX is.