Repost: Misuse of Observer cam LIVE

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by JustGotSuspended, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. strikearrow

    Cyrious is just another example of people with power abusing power. It's sad, but typical and quite frankly no big deal. Powerful people abuse power ALL the time, always have, and probably always will. Life is not fair, rules do not apply to powerful people, we all die, and we all pay taxes (not fairly to be sure) - eternal truths. Learn them early and life won't hurt as much.
  2. DonkeyX

    I didn't think it was much of a big deal that a few players were watching the stream and planting traps ahead. As a long time harasser driver it just adds more fun to the race. What is the fun of a game with no risk? If that's what you want go play Mario Cart with the 10-year-olds. He should have just left them alone, as they weren't going to kill all 50+ harassers. He could have used it as a learning tool and showcase vehicle upgrades (like mine guard) to the newbies. Plus the new players would get a sense of how open the game is and how danger lurks everywhere on the map, even when you don't expect it. That's what makes PS2 great.

    On the flip side, I don't know who this Cyrious guy is and I don't watch streams (I'd rather play the game than watch it) but he was trying to promote the game. God only knows we need pop and new players, so he was doing a good thing. I did watch other parts of his stream and he was using the observer tool to scout ahead of his platoon and point out enemy positions. He wasn't dropping orbs on them and again, he was simply guiding new players on how to play and helping protect them with Citadel shields. It isn't 100% ethical but you have to look at the big picture; We need new players.

    Now the big question is...How many outfits have access to the observer tool? I am way more concerned about that, as I have taken 5 minute breaks and sat my character in the middle of a field way way way away from any action, stalker cloaked only to come back and I have been sniped or killed. There is no possible way some rando came upon me. It really makes me wonder who has access to this observer mode.
    • Up x 2
  3. JustGotSuspended

    Cyrious I have no doubt does a great job attracting new players and teaching them the basics. Unforunately all the efforts he and others make to attract new players are useless if the devs don't put in the same energy. There's a bazillion reasons for why people quit the game, and I can guarantee that 2 dudes mining a zerg is not one of them. Using war assets should've already been enough, there really wasn't a need to cheat or vilify them as you said, wasn't a big deal and new players should expect that on live.

    You raise a very good point, which I think is worth considering. It didn't look like it was Cyrious' first time doing that, and seeing how easy it is to abuse it and the lack of interest in the devs for punishing it, you have to wonder how many times the cam is abused on live for recon and/or sneaking up behind targets such as a camping sniper, tank or whatever nuisance that could be hard to deal with otherwise. It's surprising people were given access to a cam with such features available, and were given the benefit of the doubt when clearly they can't be trusted.
    • Up x 1
  4. Somentine

    So overblown and forced drama.

    It was a streaming event supported by RPG staff and facilitated by Cyrius. After the outcry, RPG staff acknowledge the complaints but claim what Cyrius did in this instance was fine. Queue the moving goal posts, slippery slopes, and all other fallacious rhetoric.

    If anyone thinks that Cyrius is an exception and wouldn't be in deep **** if it wasn't for this specific situation, or can't figure out why this specific situation is an exception, you're braindead.

    To eliminate any 'you're biased' responses before they happen, I don't like Wrel, Cyrius, or FedX and Co.
  5. JibbaJabba

    The griefers did what they always do every night. **** on the game. Only this night they got to do something special: **** on potential new players to the game, ruin some advertising dollars, and break TOS of DBG and Twitch by stream sniping.

    They were delighted.

    But they happened to do it while dev was watching, and while dev was *paying* to have streamers advertise for the game.

    So they got slapped.

    And now they want to just climb up on that cross and have everyone lament what victims they are. Give me a break.

    Cyrious was acting as an agent of the game at the time. He wasn't playing so much as working. That's why he had an Obs cam to begin with. The anger about it all may dissipate some if you recognize he wasn't really a player at that time. He was enabling an event to occur. Acting like a mod almost.

    Would that be wrong for a player to abuse the OBS cam? Yep. I believe they revoked it and gave a month vacation to a person who used it while playing. Is this the same? Nope. Not at all. Wildly different circumstances. One-off really.

    If it becomes some regular occurrence instead of a one-off, come see me.

    Until then: I'm with Wrel on this one. I'm fine with it.
    • Up x 1
  6. csvfr

    Not exactly.

    Stream sniping is against the community guidelines of twitch only and applies exclusively to streamers, as in one streamer broadcasting the streamsniping of another. The relevant text: "... This also includes exploiting another broadcaster’s live broadcast in order to harass them in-game, such as stream sniping." This rule does not and cannot apply to non-logined viewers in for as much that it cannot be enforced.

    It also does not fall under the griefing rule as that exists to protect players from other players. "Users will not either individually or together with their squad, outfit, or other groups, engage in any intentional "griefing" of your fellow players." In fact, special treatment for streamers is not mentioned anywhere in planetside's rules of conduct.

    Finally, in planetside and any other game that embodies information assymetry (e.g. poker) you are entirely at fault for disclosing sensitivities to adversaries that can and will exploit them. This is what stream delays exist for. Seeing that Cyrious did not use one when the two other players were ganked, they would have seen what was coming if they were indeed watching the stream. If they really were out to ruin the race it would be far more efficient to build a PMB instead of planting mines.

    Also I don't think the whole idea of showing new players an artifical and manipulated event on live servers gives any good impression, at least not with the drama that ensued. In fact even as a long term player I'm happy to play on a different server without streamers that can't accept a fair fight. What's next, a 2000HP overshield for streamers, to only showcase being victorious?
    • Up x 2
  7. JibbaJabba

    I think some manipulation was necessary for the event to happen. My outfit for example was given a heads up. We weren't asked to do anything at all, just told it was going to occur. I believe the implied request was, "take it easy on these guys" which we did. (we were still massacring them in 5:1 underpop so decided to drop out and switch factions).

    New players joining won't get some accommodation. But a one off hundreds of new players joining is not going to sit well with game balance.

    So were artificial conditions applied? Yep. But it was to offset artificial conditions that arose from that many new players. Even then it wasn't really enough. NC was basically crushed during the whole thing to the point where regular players couldn't have as much fun.

    This is a one-off thing. Cyrious probably got told not to do that again, and we won't see it happen again. I'm letting it go.
    heh, don't cap your otherwise careful thoughts with a slippery slope logical fallacy. No. That's not next. Nobody is asking for that. Quit being dramatic. :p
    • Up x 2
  8. FLHuk

    "lol, forced drama, it's fine to cheat if....."
    • Up x 2
  9. Somentine

    You're malding over nothing, and the fact that you and a good chunk of people can't see that is honestly a little scary.

    • Up x 1
  10. csvfr

    The difference between a cheater and a privelege abuser is primarily one of status. One injects external code into the game client, the other uses features already present. Their deterimental effects on the gameplay of others is the same.
    • Up x 2
  11. Somentine

    If you can link to ANY instance of this that isn't tied to the event that he was facilitating, sure.
    • Up x 1
  12. csvfr

    Appologize for the rhetoric.
    It is unclear if you want links to admin abuse in general, abusees by wrel/cyrious specifically, or their particular events. 6 year old video btw with the phenomenon:
  13. Pelojian

    IMHO the moment you livestream a game you give up your privacy in said game. streams are not private, they shouldn't be treated as such, live streamers are effectively inviting people to see where they are and what they are doing.
    • Up x 3
  14. DarkStarAnubis

    Lol, I totally agree with Wrel statement at the end... But you are missing the point unfortunately :D

    The problem is that the poor Wrel with all the b.s. has dished in the last years (alongside Andy and "Planetside in the Space" crap) and being incapable to provide any roadmap has no credibility, reputation or intent whatsoever...
    • Up x 2
  15. FLHuk

    The other chunk making it clear the rules only apply in circumstances they agree with ;)
    • Up x 2
  16. Somentine


    I'm not missing the point. I don't like Wrel, the only positive I ever see from him is that he at least seems to care about the game. He is bad at PR and RPG is pretty bad at planning events and facilitating them in general.

    For this issue, to put it very simply, this isn't a normal OBS role that was given to Cyrius for this event, so the normal rules don't apply in this specific situation. It is the literal definition of an exception.

    No ****, bro. If tomorrow Wrel said that Wall Jumping is cheating, it's cheating. Doesn't matter how much you dislike it, it's their game.
    • Up x 1
  17. DarkStarAnubis

    I wasn't aware of that.

    As I wrote I have a rather low opinion of Wrel. The fact he think rules can be changed at will (yes it is their game as you say, but it is my money which pay some of his salary) makes this even worse then.
    • Up x 1
  18. Somentine

    They do that on a regular basis. Every update changes the game. This instance, at least, is a small isolated event that will not affect 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of players, EVER.

    It's overblown dramatic whining.
  19. DarkStarAnubis

    everyone is entitled to his/her opinion mate. you may think it is dramatic whining and it is fine. Allow others to think differently please.

    There is always a difference between an event and its implication. The event may be insignificant but the implications may be not.

    Cyrious is using his privileged observer cam to provide advantages to other players he likes or killing players he does not like and Wrel is happy. Does he do the same then? Wow...

    You may say "But those are the Devs.": there is Dev and there is Dev. Wrel is (obviously) not Higby. If Higby would have kicked a player for bad behavior people would have cheered and said it was a good choice, because Higby had a reputation and was perceived as someone who really cared about the game and has development and design experience to back his choices.

    But guess what? The game has no roadmap, no directions, no tutorials for new players, convoluted and absurd game mechanisms and meta so Cyrious/Wrel actions are one more grain of sand in a desertic and desolated landscape, from that perspective yes there are bigger things to be concerned about. But only because there are far bigger problems that does not this smaller problem a good thing.
    • Up x 3
  20. Somentine

    Everyone can have their own opinions, it doesn't make them right. It also doesn't mean I can't make fun of anyone with a ridiculous opinion.

    What implications, exactly?

    So let me get this straight, if Higby had of been the one to say it was okay, it would have been fine to you?

    Hey, I don't like a lot of things either, but it doesn't stop me from actually looking at the big picture. You are also assuming it is a problem, which means that there are consequences to the game that will be present until rectified... can you list the ongoing consequences that need to be rectified?