Remove Vanguard shield entirely

Vanguard shield is boring to use and frustrating to fight against, it should be removed entirely.

1) Balance all MBTs without the abilities.

2) Add new abilities based on community feedback.

3) Balance MBT abilities.

More specifically>

1) Remove all ES MBT abilities.
2) Gather in game performance metrics.
3) Use performance metrics to balance MBTs.
4) During the time above, collect community feedback regarding what ES abilities they would like to see.
5) Introduce new abilities.
6) Gather in game performance metrics.
7) Balance new MBT abilities.

God no, that sounds too reasonable for me.

You're making sense again, someone get the hammer.

This is madness.

Just replace the 3 MBTs with the NS MBT. Balance is always easier that way.

What if we just beefed up the lightnings and made the harassers take a little bit more of a beating?

Imagine a red magrider!
That would be awesome!

I love it!

I still think the shield is a great mechanic for allowing tanks to tank without making them overpowered 100% of the time, which is why I still firmly believe the shield is something all MBTs should have and the ES ability for the NC should be something new and exciting.

Madness?

As reasonable as it sounds and as much as I hated the vanguard nerf, I don't necessarily think balancing without ES abilities is going to suddenly get easier. Unless you're talking about turning the vehicle into another generic NS fare. MBTs should be different and I'll even go as far as saying the usage numbers should Not be the same nor should we strive for it

So what you meant to say is temporarily remove all MBT faction specific abilities not just the shield, ya? I see the logic in balancing them pre-ability, however even after that once new abilities if they are new are reinstated the balance game will start all over again. At least if they balanced the base tanks it would be a good starting foundation.

I am against radically changing the balance of every single tank all at once. MBTs might just be a point of discussion for most people but many of us have MBTs as a major (if not the primary) way we play the game.

Drastically changing all of them (temporarily nerfing the hell out of all of them and throwing balance to hell) and then expecting SOE to perfectly balance them based on community feedback is an unrealistic expectation, and is more or less a giant middle finger to those of us who are serious about using them.

And, since I'm being honest here, most people regardless of faction know so little about how to actually use MBTs properly but think they have it all figured out.

I'm not talking about usage, I'm talking about performance.

I do not quite understand this. First, the only reason to have anything balanced is ultimately emotion. Second, what the reason you are radically against balance? Probably emotion too. The reason I would like to see them properly balance the MBTs is that I happen to like balance (I've been playing TR since PU2 BTW)- true, balance makes people happy and ultimately that is why they want it but I fail to see how this is a criticism of the motivation or the approach.

Exactly.

Things should be balanced with or without ES abilities, at least performance-wise. In addition, the knee-jerk fear some people may have about this (not saying that you personally do) may come from a fear of never ending balance- this is a bit unfounded as a criticism, however, because as this patch is evidence, balance is never ending regardless (I just think there may be better ways to go about doing it in this particularly case).

That was just an assertion and I don't feel like discussing it since it just gets in the way of the point of my post.

Notice that this assumes that without ES abilities the tanks are not balanced, in fact, without ES abilities you say that balance would be thrown to hell. See, I think that is problem that needs to be address before we talk about what abilities should be.

Notice that this also assumes that not having the ES ability is a nerf- this despite the fact that there exist other options for that slot.

You really think it is short sighted? Honestly, I thought this proposal was exactly opposite considering that it is sacrificing the immediacy of ES abilities for the longer term goal of better overall balance.

Really? Because it was the only thing you posted until it was edited, my mistake and you're right it is not really a productive area of discussion.

Look this is just silly and pointless. You're disagreeing with my opinion, and it is an opinion that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Just drop it. I like to argue too, but if we're going to argue let's stick to what is actually relevant. I would usually discuss that with you too but I'm really not in the mood for it.

This would be funny if it wasn't already way too "true". NS 4th faction Xel'Naga Master Race....

The tanks are not balanced without ES abilities.

If the tanks were perfectly balanced without ES abilities then they would be homogenized, and then ES abilities couldn't be anything powerful or interesting.

*yyaaaaaawwwwnnnnn*