[Suggestion] Remove or Balance Nanoweave Armor

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Daemonn789, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. Taemien

    I was trying to bring a mention back to it. It wasn't directed entirely at you, this thread is about more than me and you :p

    I don't like it either, but because its not as effective as other options in the slot. Just cause a vet uses it doesn't mean its good. Vets can do some pretty dumb things when they get set in their ways.


    I said 167 damage weapons see a similar issue. 200 + 167 encompasses the entire NC faction minus a handful of weapons.


    No idea why you decided to go there. I play both TR and NC. Well mostly TR since I haven't played NC since October. And you've seen my posts before, you know I'll go to bat for any faction if I feel they've got any sort of disadvantage or getting a nerf they don't really need nor deserve. And that includes VS, even though I have a total of like an hour playing that faction, mostly in VR.
  2. Iridar51

    Felt like it was, maybe should've separated that somehow.

    Nanoweave isn't as effective?.. That's a new one.

    Nanoweave is the only suit slot that does something when that guy over there shoots you with his gun, which tends to happen a lot in infantry combat. So until this game is played by bots that hit only headshots, nanoweave is a must have for infantry combat.

    With a huge MAYBE, nanoweave isn't as effective overall, since infantry combat is not the only thing to do in PS2, and there are different ways of doing it (i.e. stalker inf / sniper don't need nanoweave), but if your only goal is to get out there and shoot people, which I imagine is for a lot of people, nanoweave is the only option to go.

    My bad, didn't read close enough.

    I don't fully agree on 167 weapons, though. Hell, even for 200 damage weapons it's not as simple as "take nano to counter NC".

    The reason why nanoweave bumps up TTK so much is because of low RoF and high overkill.

    With 200 damage bullets against 1250 HP, that's gonna be 150 overkill.
    With 167 damage, 86 overkill.

    You WANT overkill, that's a great stat to have. Because when damage starts to degrade, you will first eat out your overkill value, and only then actual damage to the target. This is part of the reason why NC weapons are so good at range - consistent bullets to kill.

    Another application of overkill is dealing with injured enemies or targets that are being healed / shielded. If that guy is lacking 40 hp out of his base 1000, he's gonna die to 6 bullets of 200 damage instead of 7. Or if the enemy is a HA with overshield and you won't lose out on that 150 damage overkill.

    So while most NC weapons are undeniably at a disadvantage in a theoretical (but often met) situation where you and a guy with nanoweave are staring at each other within 10m, NC is compensated for that disadvantage with advantages in other areas.


    Ah. V + 8 man, what I meant to say is "I the Iridar lack the investment with NC to make it my personal problem". Not that I accused you of playing favorites. I have NC and VS alts too, and I enjoy playing them for their factions.
  3. Eternaloptimist

    What would everyone with certs to spare run if there was no Nanoweave? Flak might reduce the impact of explosive spam whereas grenade bandolier would have the opposite effect...........those are the options I would be most likely to consdier but what about anyone else?
  4. FieldMarshall

    I dont even bother with nanoweave anymore.
    It wasent until starting a new char on a different server without nanoweave i noticed how insignificant it really was.
    The TTK is extremely short, with or without nanoweave.

    So i decided to try out flak. And noticed it constantly saved me from unavoidable OHK explosive damage.
    Now all my characters have flak instead of nanoweave and i havent noticed a performance loss in 1v1 combat,
    but the added survivability against things like C4, RLs, MBTs and Claymores definitely shows.

    The point is. Sure nanoweave helps, but i dont think thats why experienced players have such a massive advantage over newbies.
    You could give new players 50% more health and they would still get obliterated by veteran players.
    Imo, i dont think nanoweave is as imbalanced as some people make it out to be.
  5. Reclaimer77

    If you did that then everyone would just sink their certs into Flak Armor, because it would stack with the raised armor values and be the obvious best suit slot.

    I think the problem here is that the other suit slot options pale in comparison to having the battlefield survivability that Nanoweave and Flak armor offer.
  6. Taemien


    I question the effectiveness of Flak sometimes too.

    I run EOD HUD on my engie so I don't step on mines at all. I play objectively so I'm frequently out of reach of vehicles.
  7. OldMaster80

    That's all correct... in theory. In practice the nw advantage is rather small. With the upcoming shield changes the gap will be even tighter.

    Imho it could instead be interesting to highlight that headshots can bypass the nw armor. Is this clearly written somewhere in the game, or explained in the tutorial?
  8. Azawarau

    Its not easy mode

    Its an alternative defensive option thats more direct than something like extra tools or utilities
  9. KnightCole

    It would be interesting to see what effect it has on gameplay and on hit reg, since the game wouldnt have to calculate a further 20% reduction to your damage, in addition to lag, range, and everything else.

    Might make the other kit options more useful to.
  10. Daemonn

    I just see NWA as unnecessary. Of course players dont exclusively use it, but I'd be willing to bet NWA is the most used suit slot module. Additionally if it was removed the game wouldn't suffer in anyway if both A) TTK was compensated and B) NWA was replaced with a new suit slot module.

    I recently started playing again on my BR15 toon I made aftrr beta. I was having really terrible CQC encounters because I had reset my certs and only got some various things I was interested in. I got into a squad with some old buddies who are all BR75-100 and I asked them what things will increase my killing power and survivability.

    The majority agreed for a low BR player with limited certs NWA was the first thing I should get to at least level 4 on any classes I want to regularly run. Then they suggested Soft Point Ammunition after I find a gun I really like. I did these things and noticed a dramatic difference in my combat experience.

    I could actually kill people 1v1, granted it wasnt a HA with shield up. My gameplay experience really improved and suddenly my frustration vanished because I understand medic should lose to a HA with shield 1v1 face to face, but now I felt as if I had a chance in CQC.

    I wonder how many players have a similarly frustrating experience that never gets better because they just simply dont know to level NWA, obtain Soft Point Ammunition and just how effective headshots are in this game
  11. Saokeh

    Complaining about anything cert related is highly irrelevant since that's literally what the game uses to distinguish role and preference.

    You go up against any vehicle using stock weapons with slow reload. You're at a disadvantage to even a mediocre one.

    Infantry weapons are cert sinks for situations. Some are better at another role.

    Why does it matter if NWA offers benefit (almost a nonexistent one) to players that put in the time to unlock it. NWA isn't gamebreaking even for the less accurate but asking to blur the playing field until the F skill is the only difference is. Period
    • Up x 1
  12. Daemonn

    That still doesn't mean that the game wouldn't improve by removing it. The main idea of this post isn't that it's a cert sink but almost a necessary first step for new players to feel more competitive in infantry combat, because as it stands once your out of Koltyr you get your **** rocked until you get the right certs.

    The idea is that if enough people use NWA because they see it as the defauly choice for infantry combat, why not remove it and adjust TTK to be the same by increasing base armor values. Replace it with something more flavorful.

    No one seems to have any counter argument other than "NWA doesn't make a difference anyway, go for headshots, git gud scrub"...

    So if it is so negligible, "ineffective" and every one claims to run a different suit slot because they find NWA useless aren't these also good reasons to have it removed and replaced with something that could help further diversify roles?
  13. TheKhopesh

    2,100 actually.
    20% of 1,750 is 350.
    350 + 1,750 = 2,100.
  14. Gundem

    Remember, activation cost has to be considered as well.
  15. Moridin6

    this threads still going??

    :/
  16. Iridar51

    For the umpteenth time, nanoweave doesn't increase effective health by 20%, it provides 20% resistance, which is equivalent to increasing effective health by 25%. Shield has 750 energy, but 50 activation cost.

    So it's up to 1700 * 1.25 = 2125 rapidly decaying effective health.
  17. AxiomInsanity87

    When i shoot a newb with no nwa they drop like nothing and have no chance

    With nwa they can at least fight back if they are quick enough.


    I'm down for straight easy mode farming as that is what you're basically suggesting but is that really good for the game??. Everything is a cert sink for new players as well.
  18. TheKhopesh

    Not questioning you here, but I'd like to see the math on that.
    (Assume the weapon used is dealing 143 damage.)
  19. FateJH

    Normally, each bullet only deals as much damage within its damage radius, ignoring headshots. That's how we calculate shots to kill, or STK.
    With nanoweave, the incoming bullet damage is reduced.
    Now, let's add in the Heavy Shield in question.
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  20. Iridar51

    Thanks for the tag-in.

    I would clarify that "ceil" function means rounding up.

    Also, as everyone is aware, Heavy Shield in question has been nerfed to only provide 450 effective health, minus activation cost. I assume it's still 50 energy, though it could have changed.

    So now it's up to 1400 / (1 - 0.2) = 1750 less rapidly decaying effective health.