Remove KDR

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Strider1850, Jul 17, 2014.

  1. Posse

    Lol you're a ******.

    And yes, you don't know how to read stats, it's pretty easy to spot who has a high K/D only because he's a spawn warrior, not my fault that you can't interpret data.
  2. DorianOmega

    Akashar said:
    “This is an old suggestion I made, I bumped it actually because there are these threads today, because I think the idea is good. I don't really care about Kill per life, more score per life, but being a member, all the exp I get don't really mean anything. Changing the KDR to score per life would allow people who have alternative playstyles (like AV specialized for example) to see if they really do something in the battle. At the end of a base capture, if you play a medic, you don't really know what you did, sure, you have a good score, but you have a crappy kdr, and look like a newb. But with a score per life, you have the score, and you can see what you do every life. So you can compare with people who have good kdr.
    People with already good kdr will do good scores per life, nothing changes.
    I d'ont understand your hate.”

    The hate is because its the 3rd KDR revamp thread ive read today that basically points to accommodating the new player over the experienced player due to the learning curve when as it is KDR is more advanced statistic to consider anyway, I dont for the life of me see how removing or revamping KDR would be a good thing over adding a new stat like score per minute or life or death as a side by side thing, to me it would make the game feel more dumb and this game is pretty far from that and id hate to see it start to get more dumbed down for noobies sake, coyotes missles were one of these nooby accommodating things added that slightly dumbed down the game...

    Akashar said:
    “Not at all, it's not dumbing down. I would really like to see a kdr related to BR for a start, as it would show your learning curve. Then a score per death over kill per death is not dumbing anything down, it just puts things in a less exclusive way. When you have a stat dedicated to something, it means that it is important, and KDR is the only life related stat we have, so you have to assume it is the most important, which is false. You can do much more in one life than killing people, but you feel unrewarded because nothing keeps a track of this, you only get a better score.
    So in the end you go for killing people because not only does it boost your score, it also boost your kdr, it does the 2 jobs. My idea would make it more interesting.”

    I like the idea of score per death/life/minute, thats a great idea, but to replace KDR IMO isnt the right way to go about it for the sake of dumbing down as i put, adding the new stat side by side IMO would be a MUCH better idea, this way when a guy does see his low KDR he can try to optimize his score per whatever to make up for it to be useful instead of trying to CODMOD rambo it out all the time to get up that KDR which is a legitimate problem of KDR for new players, make the new score per whatever the more focused on stat then KDR, but dont outright throw it out or even tweak it; this is what really bothers me in these KDR revamp threads.

    These are from another thread on KDR I replied to.
  3. Strider1850

    I think the problem you have is that you look at your KDR and think it has a lot of value. Again, PS2 is never going to be taken serious as a competitive game for obvious reasons. There is no dumbing down by removing KDR and it's about improving the experience and not pandering to noobs. If you want competitive ****** sports go play Quake Live like my friends do. It is by far the most difficult high level FPS out there. In that kind of game the KDR actually means something. Because apparently there are more topics about this means it bothers people. I play this game for fun and play other games when I feel competitive. This game is about the experience itself, mass battles etc. and people who try to get a good KDR bring the experience down simply by the way this game is designed.
  4. Demigan

    I would rather they shift focus on Tank kills, facility captures and defends. The KD ratio means nothing in a game where you can be a tanker in a Zerg all the time, while other people have a KD ratio of 0.1 but they are the one's breaking open sieges, destroy Sunderers, delaying a Zerg capture and doing great but risky tactics to actually achieve something.
  5. Axcelcius

    I just rerolled a toon I had since December 2012 because of bad KDR. It was the one I learned to play and my main but I couldn't handle the KDR... A little OCD, I couldn't stop checking it and I think I can't enjoy playing the game because I am so focused on it.
  6. vsae

    Not this thread again.
    Baddies complain that someone is better than them and brag about it.
    Also, no, a guy who does lots of suicide runs to kill that sundy isnt better than a BR1 that just got into a game and have absolutely no glue about anything.
    Persistence is a good thing, except when you take it to absurd levels.
  7. LordMatt XLVIII

    KDR is a core indicator of usefullness. As a squad or outfit leader, I would rather send in dudes with a KDR of 5 to take a point than people with a KDR of .8

    Again, there are many other factors that determine usefullness in different ways, but KDR is one of them (unless they're snipers, in which case it means something completely different).
  8. Demigan

    VEHICLE kills?
    Objective's completed? (Destruction of deployed Sunderers, overloading generators, defending priority targets, capturing/defending facilities).
    XP gained from doing X activity (infantry kills, vehicle kills, running objectives) with one total XP gained.
    Amount of objective runs done VS amount of successful objectives pulled off (being near a Gen that needs overloading and dieing=failed objective. Being near a Gen and overloading it/someone else overloads it, succesful objective. Stabilization, point capture, destruction of Extreme menaces in vehicles, destruction of Deployed Sunderers etc).

    These 3 things already shift the focus to more important things. Right now when someone says 'I got a KDR of 5+' all I think is 'another moron who's been camping and farming for stats'. There's people with 0,5 KDR that I respect more because they are always at the forefront of a takeback or try to repair generators etc.
  9. Strider1850

    I simply think SOE has to choose between elitist and casual players. I think its safe to say that most players in this game are more casual than elitist. I really like competitive games and im fairly competent at them but im going to be honest by saying that people who flaunt with high KDR ratings in this game kind of annoy me. Most players don't play in outifts, have a medic buddy following them or have acces to a fully upgraded galaxy with crew to crank up kill scores. Nor do these players find it fun to spend 2 hours in a tank carefully picking off targets. They want to go into battle, see the pretty lights and occasionally go on a killing spree. They want to experience all parts of this game from playing an engineer to storming the front as a heavy and don't worry about scores. So having a KDR is like a barrier preventing players from having fun and it makes them feel inferior. So far the KDR only serves as a vanity stat for elitists.
  10. MajiinBuu

    Why would you want a game that doesn't track any stats? Why wouldn't you want to see how far you've progressed? What would be the point of even making characters? Without any statistics everybody might as well be randoms. They'd get into the game, derp around, than exit. Nothing will have been accomplished, because they didn't do anything. According to the game, they didn't do anything, because nothing would be tracked, no matter what they did. In a first-person shooter, killing is the entire point.
    A new player would get into the game and try to have fun. Once they realize that nothing they did will be remembered, they think "What's the point? This is basically just large-scale Halo CE." And they'd quit.
  11. Strider1850

    The only thing I suggest is to remove KDR and the death counter from visible stats. This is not counterstrike. In counterstrike I don't get run over by friendly vehicles or sniped by an aircraft whos flying high above. I don't get killed by running in to 12 players when I walk around the corner. I also can't escape the enclosed arena and hide in places where no one can see me or use a sniper rifle from a large distance and pick of targets without any risk. This game is great, but not good for real competitive play. Why focus so much on stats?
  12. ZBrannigan

    then track everything, a bit like:
    BATTLE OF REGENT ROCK 19/07/14 (date can be ingame date, just the idea)
    confirmed kills,
    kill assists (above 50% damage inflicted)
    vehicle kills
    vehicle kill assists
    heal assists
    max assists(ammo/repairs)
    vehicle assists (repairs/rearms)

    etc etc

    pilots and drivers could have a similar type of thing but based on the life of their aircraft/vehicle
    SORTIE 5 19/07/14(again ingame date)
    ESF kills
    GAL kills
    LIB kills
    MBT kills
    etc etc

    i'd quite like to read my stats like that rather than x kills with y weapon.

    edit: more related titles too. when a medic gets a few revives/heal assists he can start as *'sawbones' player name*..............*'grease monkey' player name* for engies
    specific actions to specific titles even, 'nurse' if you just heal but 'EMT' if you revive mostly(just title ideas, not what i'd hope for ingame, not sure anyone wants to be 'nurse' :D)
    a billion revives could give you 'surgeon general'
  13. FBVanu

    There is a very old thread here somewhere, (couldn't find it quickly,)

    about ADR replacing KDR.. somebody needs to spend some time to find it

    there is also talk about a reward statistic coming soon .. such as number of vehicle kills,
    how many sundy's you kill, how many MBTs etc.. much more important stats.

    until those are in game, KDR is what SOE wants..
  14. MajiinBuu

    You can't replace KDR with ADR, because they are completely different things. If you really want to you can see your assists, there's no reason to completely remove the most important aspect of a first person shooter, which is killing. I have 3400 assists. Do I care? No I do not.
  15. FBVanu

    You did not read my post, sadly. You did not take the time to search and learn. hence, you did not understand that ADR does NOT mean assists.. please, gamers.. <<<<<<FOCUS>>>>>>
    Now you can see that the Accomplishment Death Ratio, the ADR, can indeed, replace KDR.. you just have to spend some time thinking about it before you reply...

    Thanks to your i had to spent time searching for it. so, for your reading and educational pleasures, here is the original thread:

    It's from October 2013, .. get on that thread and vote it up..

    Short Version:

    ADR= Accomplishment Death Ratio

    What's this ratio? A death is still a death so there's no point to discuss the divisor.

    The Accomplishment is simply a value which depends on the XPs gained (before considering the various boosts and bonuses).

    The base of Accomplishment value is the standard kill which gives a base of 100 XPs and 1 Accomplishment Value.
    The other Accomplishment values are the basic XPs value of what have you done divided by 100.
    So killing a freshly spawn char gives you 0.25 for the ADR purpose, while destroying a sundy gives you 5.
  16. MajiinBuu

    So your saying that the game will still track your kills, which means that KDR will still exist.
    And as for what ADR stands for, I'll take your word for it. Nobody is going to do research to address a comment in the forums.
  17. FBVanu

    Plenty of people have, there are even some that have that link to it in their forum signature, because it is such a great idea.

    If you get 100 infantry kills, die 10 times, your KDR is 10.
    In the ADR, it would add each infantry kill as 1 point, so your overall ADR would be 20 --- (100+100 = 200 / 10)

    However, a Sunderer Kill can get you 5 extra points, or an MBT gets you 3, so killing vehicles would add a great contribution to the battle, .... those numbers add up fast and your ADR would no longer be just 20, it could be 50.
    The higher the ADR the more "high value" kills you have in it.
    and you should be able to compare the two side by side..

    It could be a great stat to add to the game.

    In another thread we were talking about different achievements, with ribbons and some small cert numbers for it, i.e.: Sunderer killer, Max murderer, Tank buster, Air squatter etc..
    get 10 Sundy kills, earn a ribbon, get achievement number on your stats, for each batch of 10 that you took out.
    kill 10 ESFs, no matter how.. same thing

    you could take out empty still standing tanks, no matter, you take out 10 tanks, get a ribbon, small certs, get a stat
    soon you could have players who took out over 100 tanks.. get that next level of ribbon and stats to show off.

    and if you add the ADR to that, there would be something to achieve, look forward to and set personal goals..
    You would no longer go out just to get xp and certs, you would go out with the specific goal of getting those last 2 Sundy kills, to get that ribbon/cert/ADR etc.. taking out those last items would take on a whole new meaning and value.

    Then players would start to care, well, at least some of them would, about their overall numbers..

    Then you could add a small graphic to vehicles, or shoulder patches.. show off the fact that you are Magrider Menace, because you took out 100 magriders, and your Vanguard has a small patch on the side, just like WWII fighter planes had.. or your Light Assault gets a new shiny shoulder patch, to show off that you are THE killer in your faction..
    new leader boards etc..

    I got auraxium on my Prowler HEAT.. so what? What am I shooting for now? Why does auraxium end? Why do Battle Ranks end?
    There should be auraxium medal 2 -infinity..
    same for BRs.. what's wrong with Battle Rank 259 ?

    Add all those together, with ADR, and players will try to get 'em all.. it could get more intense.. fun fun fun.

    The silly thing is that SOE's servers already have all these numbers anyway.. it should be easy to add them into the game.
    • Up x 1
  18. qquqq

    (Funny thing about qq talk in the thread lol my name :p)

    I like the idea of turning off K/D, I think the members benefits should include the ability to choose to track this after becoming a member, but for the vast majority of the free players it only will encourage poor game-play, rather then concentrating on the objective they will try not to die and get as many kills as they can by hiding in spawn rooms, it also serves to remind the players with lower K/D of how they play. I am not a member and would like for these numbers to go away because I find my self chasing a better overall K/D to make up for when I was learning to start off with. the day to day tracker is great but the overall K/D can discourage. mine isn't bad but I would find the game more enjoyable if it simply was not tracked, not just hidden. because hiding it wouldn't change much of how people perceive the game-play, if they are still tracked in that way, displaying daily statistics shows the progress or lack there of which people can learn from better, and be more encouraged than seeing the overall K/D.
    Since the statistics would not be tracked when not turned on as a member it would encourage people to stay members for longer periods of time with out the use of graduated benefits, this system actually discourages people form membership as it reduces the benefit for people considering shorter terms thus making them less appealing, and adds unneeded complexity to a considered purchase. which more than not will result in a negative decision.

    The % gains to Resources and XP are not the type of incentive that a grinder wants to pay for, to the grinder having the lowest handicap is actually what is desired, but knowledge is always worth more to a grinder, tracking statistics on what classes with what weapons and what vehicles killed you or you killed with what vehicle or class / weapon is far more valuable to this person than the XP, and has a longer shelf life as the Cert/SC gain is only needed up until a certain point, but statistics mean that they know who is a danger to them and how to change play style, this is some thing worth far more than in game currency, does not effect the balance of power since these statistics could be knowable with out paying to some one who recorded it.

    I realize that there would be a fair bit of programing and some people who play free would cry foul since they are losing access to their overall K/D ratio, (Don't remove the daily data though, it is helpful with out harming I believe) but these I would think would be in the minority and have the option to have far more data available if they get members benefits, assuming the programing is viable.

    I my self am not a member, I'm not sure this would encourage me to become a member, but it would encourage more so than just the currency benefits offered by membership.

    Perhaps other things such as offering members tournaments, such as set number closed battles for rating or some thing similar, could include more variety of game plays, in instanced fights, like capture the flag instead of just king of the hill {capture point} although I realize that would then mean a portion of the content would not be free to play and thus make the game not entirely free to play so it has that drawback, but as it is a tournament many games have payed entry tournaments, any ways I'm sure that would be a whole other thread.
  19. Nehemia

    I am in agreement, everyone with high ratio is a selfish brick of a player who fails to use /suicide enough for rapid deployment.

    Seriously, I just keep seeing those idiots who walk 1,6kms instead of /suicide just because "suicide kills you."