Remove Capture the Flag, misc...

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by OgreMarkX, Jun 24, 2023.

  1. TheMercator

    CTF could work.
    But you need bases designed around it.
    You need significant distances between the flag and the drop of point, making the moving of the flag the defining part of capturing a base, not camping on the spawn point.
    The defenders spawn room ideally should be somewhere in the middle, giving the defenders relativly easy acces to the main routes, forcing the attackers to either fight their way for each flag, or taking a longer way around.
  2. Doom721

    I guess I was right. Glad I quit the game.
  3. blueps

    I got a headache when I saw the cheetahs staying forever in the sky with their flags.

    I'll give my opinion on the conclusion first: remove the CTF.

    I agree with what someone else said, but there is no way to utilize the existing base as is for the CTF.
    If this is to be done, a facility designed specifically for this purpose needs to be built.

    The CTF base, especially where towers are concerned, is extremely difficult to capture.
    (The base where the defender respawns in the tower, even in a normal base, its difficult to attack.)

    Depending on the CTF base with which the tower is associated, the POP location of the flag is in the immediate vicinity of the defender's respawn.
    The difficulty is also increased by the fact that the attacker is required to make complex movements, while the defender only needs to simply concentrate his forces.

    The side defending the flag can simply snipe the flag carrier and the defense is established.
    Because the defender does not have to pick up the fallen flag and put it back in place.
    Just wait until the flag disappears. No need to pick it up in a dangerous position.
    The defender then gets the point back and resets for a short period of time.

    For this reason, when the tower base is a CTF and both sides have about the same number of troops.
    It can be said to be impossible to capture it.


    Rules should be as simple and clear as possible.

    The game is unclear on the offensive and defensive rules for some special bases, such as AMP, aside from the regular bases, and the same is true for CTF.
    There are still quite a few people who do not know how to defend on a CTF base.
    And usually they are surprised to find that everything resets in just 30 seconds.

    Everyone should be able to see them at a glance in Ingame.

    If CTF is modified or new rules are made, please do so in a way that newcomers to the game can understand.


    I have also seen allies doing something close to harassment with each other.
    The technique is that the outfit wanting the resources they get when they occupy a base, shoots at the ally who carries the flag, takes the flag and captures it.
    In the worst cases, it escalates to Team Killing.
    There should be no rules that cause conflict between allies.


    I am bored waiting for the flag to POP again regarding the game flow of the CTF rules.
    In most situations, there is no tension in this process, and the time spent on this task is indeed redundant.


    Flag carriers are basically a volunteer, dedicated activity. They are very easy targets, but they can't fight back because they are carrying flags.
    This is particularly noticeable when the number of offenses and defenses is small.
    I think it would be better to question the rule that makes flag carriers, who are supposed to be attackers, incapable of counterattack.


    I imagine that perhaps the developer was trying to make a change regarding the situation where the base's attackers stick to the point room.

    Consider the rules and victory requirements in FPS-shooter game.
    Nowadays there are countless game titles and many people have discussed them.

    In the end, the simplest ones are the best.
    Do your best to create a suitable base for a fun shootout with normal rules.
    (And by the way. The shape of a battlefield suitable for a game shootout can be unnatural, as common sense would dictate.
    For some reason, garages that are easy for the enemy to park in, buildings that are somewhat easy to enter, etc. And so it should be.)

    Special rules and bases should be ancillary.
    If a new and innovative rule is to be set, it should be an accessory one.
    I have personally thought about it. I can't come up with a very good idea and I can't find one.
    So special rules should not be introduced in key locations.
    It should be introduced in some of them and see how it goes.


    To begin with. The key objective of most players is to "shoot each other".
    Occupying a base is not the goal. Note that the system of occupation is there for the purpose of "having a fun shootout".
    All that is needed for "fun" is the right respawn in the right location, the right terrain, and the right buildings.
  4. blueps

    I have considered modifying the CTF.
    About the Concept

    "Take something and move it somewhere else"

    Keep the rules as simple as possible.
    Intuitive understanding of the rules without prior knowledge.
    Both the offensive and defensive sides must be fair under the rules.

    Eliminate "Boring waiting time" as much as possible.

    In the current situation, what the offensive side calls an attack is "room occupation".
    From a different perspective, this could be called "defense". And sometimes, this waiting time can seem boring.
    It would be good to have a proposal to change something here.

    The rule requires the offensive side to be active rather than waiting.

    Let me explain my idea.
    What the player has to do is very simple.

    "POP from respawn and then move to a specific location."

    It is the ultimately simple rule. And win at that.


    Summary Description

    "Destroy the opponent's respawn."

    This is the rule and action of placing bombs (Instead of flags) on the opponent's respawn and destroying them.
    I am going to keep it very simple what the player has to do,
    so "POP from respawn and then move to a specific location."

    Instructions in the game should be, for example, "POP from AMS and move to the red area."
    If you POP from the AMS, you automatically pick up the bomb, and if you move to the indicated position, the bomb shall also be placed automatically.
    No extra action is required of the player. For example, the player does not have to be caught off guard and die while attempting to place a bomb.


    The unique feature of this rule is that it changes the traditional rule of holding a point for a certain amount of time.
    The difference is that the player wins the game when the point is reached and does not have to wait.
    It is common to place a bomb and protect it, but it would be original if it were introduced, since it is quite rare for the placement to instantly decide the win or loss.

    If I had to give it a name, it would be "touchdown" because it is similar to football or rugby in the sense that a bomb is brought into the opponent's territory.

    If the defender does not leave the respawn, it means an immediate loss.
    So it is also noteworthy that this does not cause redundant respawn-farms.

    The game flow of bases based on this rule is super fast. You could say it is instantaneous.
    So it is necessary to be careful about placing them in important places such as the center of the MAP.


    There were existing bases that could be occupied in one minute.
    No one complained about the time it took to capture them being too fast.
    It is also fair to say that the possibility of losing them in a short time means,
    on the other hand, that they can be quickly recaptured.
    So I do not expect any problems.

    Elements considered necessary to make this proposal work.

    It should be a base of buildings and terrain whose placement contrasts with each other.
    And it has garages (It means the location of the bomb placement.) placed at the ends of each other.

    The game begins when the offensive side places the AMS in a specific position.

    At this time, it would be good if a warning is displayed to inform the defenders of the invasion.
    It wants to eliminate the wait as much as possible, but considers a minute or so necessary for preparation on the part of the defender to prevent the so-called NinjaCap.

    Therefore, for example, not being able to leave the garage, not being able to obtain bombs,
    not being able to enter the area itself, etc. for a certain period of time after the AMS is installed

    As a defender, it is unfair to wait at the enemy AMS installation position beforehand with a bomb.,
    so there would need to be a mechanism whereby the offensive side could install an AMS and the bombs would not be available until a similar time.

    It would also be good to include an element that AMS placed at a specific point cannot be destroyed except by that bomb.
    In this case, another explanation may be necessary to prevent confusion.


    Some of you may have noticed. This is a player-construction-base rule.
    The victory requirement is "destruction of the opponent's respawn".
    If the defender is aware of the invasion and does not defend promptly, the base is immediately lost.

    The rules are extremely simple.
    The explanation is quite simple too.
    "destroy the defender's building".

    The difference is that the Devs place the objects fairly from both the offensive and defensive sides.
    And after destruction, it is to automatically return to its original state again.


    Consider adding other elements that might be more fun.

    (This requires some understanding of the rules and is unwilling to do so. Personally, I prefer to be able to participate without knowing the rules at all.)

    When the bomb carrier dies, the bomb explodes, creating a blast in the surrounding area.
    And if the person caught in the blast was also carrying the bomb, it would be a chain reaction.
    Personally, I think it would be interesting if the blast blew everything up.
    If it is too much, it could simply lose the bomb, generate a reasonable amount of damage, etc.

    This would draw the interesting result that excessive Zerg would be detrimental to the contrary.
    For this reason, it might be good to have an option to dispose of the bomb, or choose to take of it.

    It may also consider whether only one or several bombs are needed to destroy it, whether it can be repaired, whether it is auto-repaired,
    Multiple targets to be detonated may be set up, or a certain amount of time may be allowed between installation and deactivation.
    It can be made available for the purpose of killing the opponent in a pointless place. (Cortium bomb strikes again?)

    Suppose you need to bring in multiple bombs many times.
    As an option, a special selection of bombs with the power of multiple bombs should be available.
    This bomb has the risk of exploding when hit by gunfire or in a chain of explosions with others, etc.

    And it would be better if some kind of effect to indicate that you have a bomb would be displayed. (Blitz like cortium ore?).


    Thank you for your patience with my long story.

    Well, even if this idea is unpopular, the advantage is that the match itself will be over in a short time, so it will not be long and painful like existing CTFs.


    Finally, please forgive me for going a little off topic.

    About the base near the warp gate. It has to be a very one-sided game to be a battlefield.
    Even if Dev put in a lot of effort, but the base of this place is rarely used.
    On the other hand, I am a bit bored by the repeated engagements in the central bases.

    Why not look for ways to utilize less used bases?
  5. darktr00per4

    I Posted this up higher in the forum but I figured I would copy and paste it here.

    I know many people who do not like capture the flag or find it annoying. I am one that doesn't much care for it as it seems clunky and pointless. Running a flag a short distance from building to building in the same compound. I think there can be a fix that would be fun and bring some nostalgia.

    Planetside 1 had a Base that required you to capture the points and then take a Core module from that base to an adjacent base. Once you took the Module you now became the worlds brightest target as you would blink no matter if on foot or in a vehicle. At anytime the enemy team can kill you or destroy the vehicle you drop the module and the other faction can pick it up and run it back (it does not instantly return.) Once it is returned the points are unlocked and can be contested or once the module is captured at the adjacent facility the base flips and can be contested again.

    I feel this might help negate the odd characteristics of the current capture the flag mode and might bring some significance back to some of the bases again aside from just being bigger places on the map. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
    • Up x 1
  6. blueps

    Carry something from an occupied base to a neighboring base.
    It is interesting that this idea could be something of a inspiration.
    For a change, road-blocking by tanks would be important.
    If the item to be transported is something needed to occupy the next base, it would make no sense to go to the capping point ahead of time, and it would be necessary to escort it.
    My concern is that more rules will be added, which will be confusing, but if it have some good instructions, it will be resolved.
  7. Erendil

    Thanks for replying here! It's good to see you folks continuing to reach out to the community after Wrel's departure. His absence has been felt by many, and this combined with the /r/planetside subbreddit going dark has made this community especially vulnerable. So again, thank you.

    That all said, the CTF system needs a rework. I suggest going with a tried and true system that we know works well in an MMOFPS: PS1's LLU Run.

    I've been playing Planetside 1/2 consistently since 2003 and have participated on both sides of probably hundreds of PS1 LLU runs in my time, and I can tell you that the mechanic would work great in PS2 as well. It would also provide the following benefits:
    • Get vehicles directly involved in a base capture in a new, engaging and sensible way
    • Revitalize the air game since aircraft would become the main interceptors of LLU runners
    • Encourage outdoor battles that are centered around the transport of the LLU between bases
    • Bring new purpose for construction by providing FOBs to either support or stop LLU runners (depending on if you're attacking or defending)
    • Up x 1
  8. darktr00per4

    This right here. Yes.
  9. JibbaJabba

    Agreed. If CTF is to stay it needs it's own bases.

    Destroying the standard capture bases to make CTF bases was a bad move for the game. Content was REMOVED instead of being added when this was done. Those were really good bases. Westpass, crux, indar ex, etc.
  10. waystin2

    Dump CTF. Even huge Zergs avoid those type of bases. As far as containment sites, they would be greatly improved by condensing their size.
  11. nagibator

    no it dont need removed, mb balanced reworked but not removed
  12. darktr00per4

    I think the biggest problem with containment bases is they came to late in the game as they had already turned most of the other bases into containment sites with high walls and limited paths in and out restricting vehicle lines of site and forcing infantry combat. while yes the constant bombardment and spam was annoying it forced a different kind of game play. Now all the bases are mostly cookie cutter and vehicle combat isn't very prevalent like it used to be. #redeployside.

    I think bringing back other aspects of the older game would help incorporate more vehicle usage and bring some change to the battlefield-esq current style such as hacking a main terminal in the depths of a base to start a capture. it would require the attacking team to hack and hold in order to capture the base instead of just flipping points.

    Another one as suggested above would be the LLU run where you would hack a terminal wait a defined amount of time for it to spawn and then attempt to run or drive a blinking football from that base to an adjacent randomly selected friendly base. I don't believe you could fly with it in the original game though I believe you were stuck on the ground which made it a little bit more balanced and fair to the defenders.
    • Up x 1
  13. The Wolf

    If they wanted to put something in. Instead of CTF, it should of been the LLU. Where you hack a control terminal. Then from the acquire the LLU and you can't drive a vehicle but you can ride. You take the LLU from the enemy base to your base and turn it in at the control terminal. You only had to do it one time and you were marked with a yellow icon. You would also blink with a yellow circle around you too. That is how it originally worked in PS1. Its like they wanted to go that route but did it in a crappier way with CTF.

    Ya the LLU ideas is from PS1. It was much better than the CTF trash we got. But you couldn't drive a vehicle if you were carrying the LLU, you had to ride with someone or walk. You could also still use your weapons even though you were carrying the LLU. If someone tried to shoot you, you could defend yourself against them. It also didn't weigh you down because people were going to come to try to kill you. So they wanted you to have a fair chance to outrun the hunters.

    It does because no one deals with them now because its a waste of time and too easy to defend. Hence why you never see battles there. Most just go for the capture point bases because its easier and quicker to get into it. Not having to deal with your cap getting fully reset by someone recapping the flag.
    • Up x 2
  14. darktr00per4

    Thanks! some of the details I couldn't remember, its been a few years
    • Up x 1
  15. darktr00per4

    A couple more Ideas in this post since the last Dev note.
  16. Ps2 player

    not sure if devs even know but that one tower on amerish in the lower region you cant even grab the flag to begin with and its been that way since CTF has came out lmao
  17. tigerchips

    Yeah, remove CTF. I think Wrel got side tracked with what he was doing. I got the impression that he originally wanted a Battlefield Titan mode on Oshur, or was i dreaming lol?

  18. StalwartNightmare

    I signed in and joined this forum just to post about this. I am really tempted to put in another thread about removing this so hopefully it increases the chances it gets removed, but anyways. Get rid of this god-awful mode, nobody wants to play some wonky designed CTF mode in this game. I would rather just capture the area like normal.
  19. NCtraitor7

    Random redesign idea:
    Every CTF base has 2-3 delivery points/orbital communicators. If any of them is controller by attacker (I prefer capping it by presence than hold E in vulnerable spot), a flag is dropped from pod in random place of a set area (not too close to spawns/ orbital communicators) each time another flag is captured/secured.
    OK, enough for me, I hate this mode. Flag pickup could provide NS-MAX-like shield at e.g. 1000 HP
  20. darktr00per4

    Any more ideas or opinions on this?