[Suggestion] Regarding alert interest

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by RabidIBM, Dec 28, 2020.

  1. RabidIBM

    I know that we're already waste deep in different game resources, but it's one idea I've come up with to incentivize interest in alerts.

    Add another 2 resources to the game, with working titles of player prestige and leader prestige. These would be spent like certs to buy various bling that allows players to show off their record of winning.

    Player prestige would be awarded only to the winning faction's players, scaled to the amount of the alert they were logged in for. Leader prestige would be similar, but would also scale with an average of the number of players they were leading.

    As for what bling? I don't know, in a game like this you can always come up with more bling to add. Hats, decals, titles, snazzier guns, various "command vehicle" decorations. I'm open to other suggestions.

    Point is, being able to say "look at my hat/title/whatever" which we would all know means this guy has a lot of PL wins to his name, maybe this is something people would actually play the alert for? We've already seen that people will play a campaign which they complain about while they're playing it to get bling.

    Ultimately, I'm trying to come up with ways to address the fact that most players don't care about alerts most of the time, even though that's "the W" we're meant to be playing for.
  2. JustGotSuspended


    PLZ NOOOO


    Also I don't like adding individual alert incentives, because that doesn't motivate the faction as a whole to win, only the few that are interested in the currency, and haven't bought the 1-2 items they want from it yet.


    No, I think a better route to take would be to bring back the nanite reduction costs, or find another thing that every player can benefit from, and that would give that faction an advantage for winning, while not totally empowering them. Nanite costs I think are fine because everyone needs them, but newer players will go through them more quickly, while more experienced players die less and likely have membership/boost or ASP reduction anyways, so the faction wide nanite-cost won't even make that much of a difference in most scenarios. It worked fine back when it was this way, but if people really can't stand a 50% reduction, maybe 25-30% would be fine? Again, it still needs to sound big enough to make a difference, otherwise you'll completely lose player/platoon leader interests, as with the current benefits.
  3. RabidIBM

    The issue with nanite reduction is that many players log off after the alert. For the most part, nanite discount rewards players who weren't present for the win. We need a system that rewards the winners of the alert, not the people who happened to log into the winning faction 2 hours later.

    The reason I went for a prestige system separate from certs is because after 6 to 8 years, or however long most of our vets have been playing, they have everything they want which certs will buy. Even if you add a bunch of stuff now, and they actually want it, ok, I tip 5k of my 8k banked certs and...now what?
  4. OldSchoolD

    Alerts at some point used to be like : Control X type of bases (Biolabs, Amps, Tech Plants). The one who controlled 2 out of 3 won, often it was a draw. As a subplot the underpopped faction could aim for a draw, and if obtained, banter ensued and it was celebrated as a small victory. Of course then you had 3 big fights, which is why it was cancelled and made to control a few more random bases too, all over lattice chaos, but as it was still too inviting for big fights, that was cancelled too.
  5. pnkdth


    Could add this as secondary objectives to existing alerts.

    • Increased win bonus for holding more large facilities.
    • Bonus for holding the same amount of large facilities.
    • Bonus for holding large facilities (could function as an extra incentive for the losing faction to get a nice bonus regardless, also as a moral victory).
    • and more.

    I am sure there are many more ways you can add in bonuses for losing factions or just objectives for smaller outfits and groups of players to a point where they do not feel like their contribution was meaningless.

    So rather than even more resources and currency, just add cool rewards which reinforce sticking with your faction through the good and the bad. Like extra bonus for playing 10 alerts in a row with a single character, then 25, 50, 100, etc, etc. Add some faction pride and loyalty! In short, reinforce and encourage behaviours which support your faction and helps the experience for everyone playing in the alert.
  6. RabidIBM

    pnkdth, I like the enthusiasm, but I see a couple problems.

    Rewards for playing with the same faction all the time would be effectively punitive to players who even check out the other factions only every once in a while. Having to keep the streak going means never experimenting means limited game play experience. I get that some people are into faction loyalty, but this game is meant to offer different content to each faction, and if you never play the other factions, you are missing out on content. I know there would be some people who would relog as soon as they see the alert tipping a particular way, but tighter faction balance queues would take care of most of that along with rewards scaling with time played in the alert. Sure, you could jump over for the final 15 minutes...to collect 1/6 of the reward...if you can get through the queue. I think most players would just push for the win with the faction they'd been logged into since the alert started.

    The other reason I would insist on an outright win to get benefit would be to break up the current meta of 2nd place beating up on 3rd place to not be 3rd. It happens a lot, and yes, that's the mentality. I've had arguments with PLs about giving up winning the alert and beating up on 3rd to not be 3rd. That is exactly what they are doing. Divide the factions into 2 groups, the faction that won, and the factions that didn't win. That way 2nd place will actually attack 1st place. While I see the merit of smaller objectives, these will lead to 2nd place giving up on winning and shifting focus to what measured achievements they can dig out of the 3rd place faction.
  7. pnkdth


    The end game is to get people playing on the same team with the same people. That stuff builds community. Like when I played WoW (or any other MMO)I didn't always play for the game but to play for my guild, help them get gear, and just have fun. It wasn't just about my personal reward, it came down to achieving things together. Especially once you already got all the stuff you need (certs, weapons, etc).

    Since this game is more of a sandbox you got to divide things up and have different levels of goals. We're essentially playing with and against players who are in pre-made groups to lone wolf casuals. The queue is another issue but if we can allow population imbalances by scaling rewards, i.e. a low pop faction would still be able to reach smaller and attainable goals for good rewards.
    • Up x 2
  8. Demigan

    So in order to increase interest into the Alerts, you massively increase the reward for zerging, ghost capping and general griefing that is the status-quo when you try to win an alert? On top of the fact that 2/3rd of the playerbase will never enjoy an alert because those carrots you throw in won't be won by them?

    Current victory mechanics are cancer. They don't promote players to play the game, they promote players to avoid fights, to cheese fights and to make fights so unfun for their opponents that they leave. That is not the way you want your players to play.

    If you want people to join alerts stop trying to throw carrots at them. They already got carrots like Bastions, Collossi and Orbital FU and if that's not enough then maybe it's time to re-evaluate your strategy. Why don't you start with making the way to achieve a victory fun for everyone?

    When capturing a base, players should be encouraged to build a fun, balanced battle. For example if the enemy Zergs you, the objectives could change so it becomes easier for a lower population to still fight back and have a decent chance at slowing down or stopping the enemy. Additionally you need mechanics that encourage the attackers to give opportunities to the defenders, rather than spawncamp them with vehicles and a Zerg while the defenders have barely anything.

    If players can actually enjoy the Alerts they will join the Alerts. Make sure that if you join a fight you don't run the risk of suddenly being overwhelmed and crushed by redeployside or a Galdrop that you have no way of stopping or preventing, or give the players tools to combat such tactics. Make sure that defenders can actually exit the spawnroom safely or unpredictably by the attackers and have a decent fight rather than having to fight through a chokepoint just to occupy the first building, then fight through a dozen more chokepoints to reach the point.
    If fighting at any base doesn't become a risk of your gameplay being absolute horsecrap, then players won't have to resort to joining large-scale non-stop battles like TI Alloys and Biolabs in order to get their MMOFPS itch scratched.
  9. Johannes Kaiser

    And some buffs. I think it was Demigan who somewhat recently asked for that.
    Fighting 1v2 is more fun if you knwo that if you play your cards right you can actually win. Requires more thought and skill, but it's possible thanks to some increases in your shields or damage output to even out chances a little bit.
  10. Liewec123

    The main issue with the apparent lack of interest in alerts...is VS.
    Noone enjoys fighting them and so alerts are ignored in favour of enjoyment fighting tr/nc.
    I despise the VS so I dedicated most of my last session to fighting them for several primetime alerts.
    It SUCKED. hours of frustration, getting zerged and spawn camped by flying tanks on rooftops,
    lasher spam in doorways, insta-killed by beatlgeuse...

    I spent the last 10 minutes of the alert (when VS had 65% of the continent and the other two had 20% or less...) fighting TR,
    And that 10 minutes was the 2nd best part of the night.
    Best part was ofcourse massacring people with my Lasher and Horizon, playing the dirty VS myself!

    Tldr
    So yeah no matter what rewards we throw at alerts, noone will bother until we balance VS.
    Adding better alert rewards would just be giving VS free stuff...
    • Up x 1
  11. pnkdth


    Going by the numbers of the fresh PS2alerts data all NC/TR would need to do is to put up a modicum of resistance and VS would be dethroned (NC are already close enough in global alert wins). Looking at the combat data (also on PS2alerts) we cannot see any evidence of this massacring VS are responsible for (it is incredibly even numbers).

    The reason you see magriders and lashers everywhere is probably because they stand out which has lead to an ever reinforced confirmation bias. You've already expressed that you despise VS too. Apparently the Horizon is now OP too? BG insta-killing? What?

    With all this in mind it almost seem like you've ended up with a self-fulfilling prophecy where you ignore VS, which lets them win, and you refuse to fight VS, because of some excuse which in turn lets VS have easy wins. Plus, even with these easy wins the VS are not pulling ahead drastically overall.
    • Up x 1
  12. Liewec123

    its only even numbers if you look at the grand total (including off peak, ghost capping hours.)
    if you look at the number that matter (prime time, when people are actually playing)
    then VS are winning 39% of primetime alerts.
    this isn't a small margin, and shows that something is clearly wrong.

    no, the reason i see magriders everywhere is because there are magriders everywhere.
    i'm not sure about other servers, but Cobalt at primetime if you're in territory with a VS presence, you're buried in magriders.

    not really, its more just bog-standard cause and effect.
    VS have too many good toys > VS aren't fun to fight against > people don't fight VS > VS win alerts.
    • Up x 1
  13. pnkdth


    39% is not much at all. It would have been an incredible feat of balance to maintain a 33x3 divide globally.

    If we look to different servers we can see the difference is highly dependant on the server itself, i.e. there is nothing which suggest VS is dominant across the board thus no reason to assume the problem is the VS. Even the server Cobalt as a 33% win rate for all factions during prime time.

    The results are very swingy now though since the data collection is relatively young. Even so, PS2alerts before the update did not show any massively dominant tendencies for VS either. What's interesting in more recent times is that TR seem to be falling behind both NC and VS.
  14. Liewec123

    they have nearly DOUBLE TR's primetime win rate.

    the worst they do on any server is 33% (breaking even) on emerald they're at 40%, on miller a whopping 50%.

    do you even see the numbers? VS clearly win way more alerts than TR and NC, to deny this is to object to the numbers.
    and numbers don't lie.

    and aslong as VS remain as frustrating to fight as they currently are,they will continue to win alerts
    because they simply aren't worth the hour+ of stress when we could instead have fun fighting a balanced faction like TR or NC.
  15. pnkdth


    Of course I do, the fact you're trying to make me out to disagree with this statement is nonsense.

    However, I find it curious you never mention that the NC are just a few % behind VS and that it is TR who has fallen behind. I guess that doesn't work with the "VS is OP"-narrative, eh?
  16. Demigan

    I suggested things like making it easier for the defenders to get out of the spawnroom unmolested and attacking points of interest, making it easier to acquire nanite-costing force multipliers and changing the goals and objectives to make it possible for the defenders to still do their job when outnumbered. I'm heavily against just boosting the damage and health of players.
    • Up x 2
  17. Liewec123

    "do you even see the numbers? VS clearly win way more alerts than TR and NC, to deny this is to object to the numbers."
    [IMG]
    Please don't pretend that this whole time you haven't been arguing against the numbers.
    You've time and time again refused at every turn to acknowledge that VS win far more alerts,
    Despite the numbers being always against you.

    And anyone whose ever checked the alerts over the past few years knows that you're lying about before the update too...
    We've had this debate before and back then VS won more alerts than TR and NC combined,
    and still you objected to the facts and tried to defend your doomed position...
    In a rational world people who are given evidence would accept it and change their view,
    You are proof that the world is full of irrationality.

    PS2Alerts has just reset, so we'll need to wait a good while to get a decent amount of data,
    and then i'll gladly give you even more facts to ignore.
  18. pnkdth


    Before the data (when it shut down in sept 2018) on global alerts were PS2alerts were VS 37%, TR 34.8%, NC 25%. You do not nerf the faction who wins 2.2% more alerts, you boost the faction who are falling nearly 10-12% behind since those numbers will eat into the others. Granted that data is outdated but it had a very good sample pool. The more recent and smaller sample (around 120-160 alerts per server) had something like VS 39% NC 34%, TR 22%. While a smaller pool it shows an indication that TR has suffered badly between sept 2018 and up till now or at the very least is suffering from a bad run recently.

    Feel free to address the numbers, I'll just repost them till you do.
  19. Liewec123

    funny how now you magically have some secret numbers that we can't look at or verify.

    also, we've had alert victory data more recently than 2018, because like i said,
    we've had this little dance before and it was fairly recently. (a little over a year ago)
    and in that little dance the numbers were completely against you (as they will always be on this subject.),

    you had an issue with me using the word "dominate" for what VS were doing, much like you do now.
    and much like now i pointed out the win rates.
    which at that time was over 50% alert win rate for VS, and you...didn't...even...respond.
    (because how could you? even YOU with your crazy need to defend against facts
    couldn't be bothered attempting to argue against a winrate above 50%...)

    though i'm guessing (if your numbers are even real) that you probably didn't mention it
    because it is probably the total (including off hour ghostcap time) and not the primetime wins.

    unfortunately for you IT IS NOT 2018, it is 2021.
    so in a week or two, after enough primetime alerts to get enough data,
    you'll need to address actual data that we can check and verify.
    and as it has been for YEARS, the data will be on my side, and not yours.

    the only thing you've been correct about so far is that VS were winning nearly 40% of recent primetime alerts.
    so prepare to be wrong some more, (or do the unthinkable and agree with the fact that VS win far more alerts.)
  20. pnkdth


    It really is quite funny how you're suddenly are interested in that data now that we can't find it anymore, yes. Those numbers still show the VS wasn't dominating since VS/TR had very similar win rates, it was the NC who fell behind. Just because you play ignorant doesn't change this.

    Again, stop presenting arguments as if I didn't just make the very same points myself. I know that data is old, that's why I said so, I know the sample size is small for current alerts, that's why I said so. That said, if the sample size is insufficient why are you placing such importance on the 39% win rate?