[Suggestion] Redesign tank mines

Ignoring everything else as I'm reached AT mine thread fatigue levels for the moment, I would like to say that I do not want AT grenades. Those things are terrible. Not only are they subject to normal grenade physics wackiness, but they're subject to an even further directional wackiness: it's possible for a grenade to land near a vehicle the wrong way and do very miniscule to nonexistent damage, or land near a vehicle the "correct" way and actually do full damage. You have no control over it. This is on top of doing damage that isn't even worth the certification costs of unlocking them. If you can destroy a vehicle with one, it was already on its last leg anyway and you're just kill-stealing.

Edit:

Don't get too far ahead of yourself. The OP does have some valid points. I'm willing to give up the current implementation of mines that I use so often (the minimum needed to justify their existence) in exchange for a functional and effective mine field mechanic, but not before or without that.

This times a million. C4 exists explicitly for the purpose of running upto an enemy tank and dropping explosives on it. That is C4's main purpose, (the other use being MAX hunting duh). Having AT mines be an easier to use and cheaper form of C4 is just stupid on every level.

I'm also growing VERY concerned with how minegaurd is becoming more and more the must have upgrade. It's killing variety in vehicle fitments and resultant gameplay.

IMHO:

1. Give tansk the same XP treatment as Air, i.e. damghing them awards XP.

2. Reduce AT mines cost by 25-50

3. AT mines will now only arm after being dropped if there is no freindly or enemy unit, (infantry tank, whatever), within their blast radius for 10 seconds.

4. Make it 3 AT mines carried base, 6 with the second cert and let us deploy them all.

5. Consider returning the resource cost of any undetonated mines a player has placed when they log out.

Contrary to what people believe i get kills all the time just leaving mines on common routes. The problem is the kill type is a good deal more random, and as such a lot less valuable on average, (thus IMHO it should cost less). More mines lets you annoy more locations.

Mines are already a pretty decent defensive tool, and the upcoming lattice system will only make them more so, the issue is that right now this isn't the most cost efficient use of them and they're maybe a little expensive for that kind of random placement ATM.

What does the flavor text for C4 actually say its supposed to do? I've never read it, and the wiki only says "Remotely Detonated multipurpose explosive and trigger" and "capable of incredible damage to infantry and vehicles alike." That's what I've been going by. (Tank Mines say "User deployable anti-vehicle mine, activated by nearby enemy vehicles" and "effective solution to enemy ground vehicles.")

I seriously don't think that all these nerf AV mine people don't realize that a lot of their changes will remove a lot of the utility from AV mines. If mines ever do get chanced to not be able to pop sundies, blockade armor will become the new 'Mandatory' cert, and we're going to end up with nearly indestructible sundies.

But people don't see that far, they just see their not guarded sundy get popped and come here demanding changes to things that popped it.

"My problem is not that there aren't options for dealing with them, my issue is that it creates cheap gameplay."
So you think its cheap, fine, but a game mechanic change affecting everyone? No. I think it is a viable tactic.

" but I want to shift mines into a more defensive role,"
But i like using them in an offensive role. Why am i required to play "your style" of play?

Translates into :
"I dont like it, its cheap, and doesnt conform to my playing style, game mechanic change needed."

yuck.

I play completely different then you. And for completely different reasons. But you dont see me trying to make you play my way.

I've never actually read the text but i'd guess the wiki is a quote. The point is eng's already have something who's only valid method of use vs tanks is identical to the way a lot of people us AT mines. AT mines have other methods of use vs Tanks, C4 does not, ergo AT mines should not be usable the same way C4 is, (i.e. you shouldn't be able to use them by running upto a tank and placing them right on the tank). It keeps C4 as a viable option.

Mines are perfectly fine in terms of ability to kill things if placed randomly at the right places, the issue is that they're a bit expensive for their effectiveness at this. Being able to mine more locations with cheaper mines would be vastly supiriour IMHO.

Like I said above, I'm fine with getting rid of the offensive AT mine useage so long as we exchange that for practical and effective mine field creation mechanics. That just means I use some other means to quick-destroy the S-AMS.

There is no translation, you just wanted to score points acting childishly.
He told you exactly what he meant.
As for mines themselves, they are indeed perfectly balanced, its ab out having fun in games, an NOT about forcing people to only play a narrow confined puddle deep shallow game. Being able to use your tools in interesting ways, is what proper FPS gaming is about.

There is no cheapness in mines whatsoever, Every single time dieing to mines is the players fault each an every time.
Dont use flak armor, your fault
Dont use mine guard your fault
Dont use NVG, your fault
Dont take responsibility for your own gaming, your fault.

Rather then have C4 and AT mines perform a nearly identical role, I want to change the mine into a more defensive tool. If you like running up to vehicles and drop explosives on top of them then you're still free to use C4 for that, but wouldn't it make sense tochange the at mine to open up a new play style?

This is only way I would accept a tank mine nerf. If they nerf and don't make all of these changes then AT mines become pretty much useless.

The only extra thing that I would add is make it so mines are not detonated by people shooting at them. Make it so only engies and maybe infils can safely defuse mines. This will add another layer to clearing a minefield as it now requires infantry to clear or a series of vehicles taking damage. Either way it will slow down a tank column significantly and could be a great tool for an ambush.

So you could just jump out of your vehicle, repair it at no cost and no time and continue moving?

So you could easily kill that engineer who oustsmarted and outmaneuvered you so many times?

So engineers could waste more resourses planting mines that don't kill you?

That's not why people use landmines. I always stack 3 landmines, sometimes with C4, I do it to kill you.

Of course, who needs a mineguard when mines can't be stacked?

More powerful? Now it takes 7 (seven !!!) AT mines to kill a fully mg-certed sunderer. Should it take 40?

I use mineguard on both my sundie and mbt, so that is what I do already anyway.

You could still do this with C4. . .

They would still kill, but only unwary vehicles cruising at high speed or not paying attention/quickly braking after the first boom. About rescources, read the entire sentence.

You could still score kills, but rather then the hurr durr, stack 2 for instant death, you would need to be smarter about placement. Place them in slopes where vehicles will speed up, place them in a line the vehicle will be traveling in to guarantee multiple hits etc.

Is there a point here?

For the price of giving up AMS? Sure, why not?

There are 2 threats for parked cars, C4 and mines.
There are also counters for these threats, but mutually exclusive to each other.
Whats wrong with that ?

Did a developer come out and state "yeah we didn't mean for mines to explode on stationary targets" or are you assuming that is what they wanted?

Because there are mines that exist today that will explode on a stationary target. In a future world where we resurrect our selves, have floating tanks, and make items appear out of no where via nanobots... yeah we may be develop mines that detect enemy from friendly targets and detonate according to that.

Oh, and there is mine guard which for some reason people refuse to use and still ***** about dying to mines.

No, C4 does not destrpy the sunderer, giving the engineers time to fix. AT mines destroy the sunderer. Only way I would accept this is if they buffed C4 to AT mines destruction.

Don't change the mines, change the scoring system.

Tank kill + you live = +300 (or 400) points.
Tank kill + you die before the mine explodes = -10% rewards.
Tank kill + you died from that mine = -90% rewards.

Suicide mining solved except in the cases of those dedicated to winning.

I don't think mines are OP, or being used improperly (aside from them being sort of death frisbees, but that's minor) or anything. Not anymore. I just think that the scoring system needs to change so that the suicide sapper has to make the relatively hard choice of reduced rewards but a solid contribution, or being efficient but potentially contributing nothing. Or they could use their brain and contrive ways to get the tank kill while staying alive.

what, as Frisbees?

That would be cool. Would not require me to get so close to the sunderer. Just toss it in. I like.
Keep mines as is except add ability to thow them like a frisbee.
Outstanding idea.

Seems legit

edit, ok I read that wrong.

Mines are being sued exactly as they are meant to be, suicide mining idiot sundy exp farmers who run off to run an gun deserve every bit of exp they get. because the fool who left it, wanted it to be blown up as he refused to defend it.
Why should engies, be punished for using their only offensive weapon on vehicles as it is intended to be used?.... answer, they should not.If I suicide kill your tank/xp farmer, you deserved it, an you actively choose to get killed, It had little to do with me. if you didn't want me to kill you, then you should have killed me...