Redeploy whack-a-mole base defences are becoming tedious

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Firejack, May 13, 2014.

  1. Firejack

    This is driving me crazy now. Massive armies are just vanishing before my eyes and appearing suddenly across the map. There is no logic, strategy, or explanation, as to what possible benefit this form of instantaneous teleportation brings to the game. Its fundamentally undermining the lattice systems attempt at creating flowing battles between bases.

    This evening I watched as VS and NC kept redeploying between 2 fronts on Esamir. Instead of grabbing the initiative and pushing the tactical momentum they had after victory. The victors redeployed to play spawn room heroes on the other side of the map. Back and forwards they went for over an hour between spawn boxes.

    Those few attackers who swept between bases without opposition were met with frustration and no reward for attempting to play the game properly as mass ranks of defenders would appear wherever they pushed within minutes of their arrival.

    Something needs to be done. Redeploy could be useful but right now its becoming the #1 form of transport in game. Thats creating a vicious circle of fewer people using vehicles, because they think others will use redeploy and they'll be travelling alone to the next fight were they'll possibly miss out on the action/ XP, unless they redeploy also. :rolleyes:
    • Up x 4
  2. Phyr

    Shooting all those galaxies and chasing away libs is getting tedious.
    • Up x 2
  3. Beeman

    I agree. It always disappoints me when I'm in some big platoon doing something epic then platoon lead chimes in with "okay everyone redeploy to [base across the map] let's kick out [enemy faction] ". That always seems to happen right after I get a MAX or vehicle >_>
    • Up x 3
  4. Blippy

    Whenever squad or platoon lead says to redeploy, I always stick around where I am until I die. May as well get a few more kills before leaving.
    • Up x 3
  5. iccle

    I posted this in the resource revamp roadmap, parts of it are applicable here:

    • Up x 1
  6. KnightCole

    Yes, yes it is. The power of air vs ground targets is really making this game boring. I can agree the redeploying around cuz taking a tank is death is boring.

    I rarely drive a tank more then around a tech plant where i spawn it. I redeploy else where and it dies to a aircraft soon after.
  7. biterwylie

    Redeploy is one of my most hated features of the game. It makes a mockery of trying to say the game is any kind of battlefield. In reality the game is just base fight after base fight. Nothing happens in between.
    • Up x 1
  8. TheFamilyGhost

    There are PvE players, and PvP players.

    Of course, PvE is very boring, but others like it.

    You can't change PvE players. Find PvP players, and have fun.
  9. ThreePi

    Wholeheartedly agree with the OP. Basically any mechanic which allows players to just "appear" en masse on a location without warning is a bad mechanic. It kills strategy, kills logistics, discourages the use of transport vehicles, and its not fun for attackers because you can just be overwhelmed by a zerg from the spawn room without any warning.

    My ideas were:

    1. Redeploy/suicide only let's you deploy at your current hex, adjacent hexes or you warpgate. This would put a larger time penalty on redeployments but would be kind of clunky.

    2. Redeploy would only let you deploy at hexes not connected to enemy territory. This would mean you couldn't spawn on a fight, but near it so you would have to get transportation. I think this would promote more counter-pushes and open-field fights.

    I do also like the idea of redeploy costing resources. Make it so you can redeploy to any hex, but hexes further away cost more resources. Either way, its definitely a mechanic that SOE should look into. The current system is frustrating and dull.
    • Up x 1
  10. Corporate Thug

    Guess you really didn't need that MAX or vehicle at that fight to begin with. Large groups randomly pulling vehicles to over power small forces just to be more effective and not have anything to do but farm is killing this game for me.
  11. Huxer

    All of the people who are arguing against redeploying have serious holes in their arguments here even the guy who is in the roadmap forum. The solutions that have been offered simply would not work.

    Firstly, if you made the redeploy timer longer each time you redeploy, people would simply type in /suicide and redeploy at will or intentionally get themselves killed. I know I would.

    Second if you limit to just transferring between adjacent bases, which by the way is quite often the case already on live btw, people would still use it because waiting 5 or 10 seconds is still vastly faster than going over to a terminal from wherever you were when the fight ended., getting a flash and driving 500 meters.

    Third, I'm pretty sure the intention of the lattice was to avoid ghost capping. The 'WDS" trend of rapid redeploys stomps out ghost capping like a wet blanket. So it actually enhances the lattice system. To be fair I am not a fan of lattice but that's not the topic here.

    Fourth, all of the liberator pilots and air to ground pilots have made the life of the average infantry miserable. I really don't feel sorry for them not having any sunderers to kill in a 1-12 vs 1-12. This makes it so the only time you need to pull a vehicle is when you are preparing an invasion of an enemy territory, Soon people will not invade without the support of a full platoon and from what I understand from the pilots, this is exactly what the liberators have been balanced for.

    Fifth, even if I was unable to press "U" to redeploy i could still swap squad lead to a player I send ahead and have him drop a beacon for us. This would make air taxi/beacon drop/instant action the new fad btw. No one is going to actively choose to pull a flash to get to a base that's 3 lattice links over.

    I totally understand that this makes the game a semi-lobby shooter. I don't really have a problem with this as it makes finding fights at low pop times much, much easier. At the end of the day, I'm here for the fight not ghost capping and redeploy provides this too me without the problems of begin 'air camped" Sorry to break it to you but if the devs don't nerf air, we will find other ways to deal with them, but honestly now that other people are doing this too, I'm not sure there is any going back because,it's superior to conventional travel in almost every way.
    • Up x 2
  12. UberBonisseur

    It's not the redeploy timer as in pressing the redeploy button.

    Think of it as, you deploy somewhere outside of the territory you died in, 15 seconds. You do it again to move somewhere else, it's longer. Which can more sense in a global deployment system where you could just deploy anywhere (with timers based on distance) to prevent hopping from one territory to another.

    Yes. It's useless to limit redeploy zones to adjacent bases only because 15 + 15 = 30, so you only have to press redeploy twice. And people aren't going to drive a flash if they can just redeploy there.

    The purpose of lattice was to force zergs to fight another, and as a side effect to add predictability. There is no ghost capping, only defenders that don't respond. If we STILL managed to respond during the Hex system with a ****** deployment system and a lackluster UI, doing so in the lattice would be incredibly easy.

    Because 48+ battles aren't dominated by Libs doesn't mean Libs are balanced. Lolpodders always prefered bullying small fights over participating in big battles. Same goes for Libs. Zergs zerg because there's people to shoot there. A unopposed zerg usually means the defenders have resisted long enough to generate a big force, then one side gives up on fighting.

    Yes. The spawn beacon could use a few limitations though, or even ESF bailing.

    That doesn't mean rapid redeploy is good. It doesn't enhance anything, it's just huge numbers being allowed to hop around the map and crush the attackers spawn points with superior number. Just being there 2 minutes to destroy the AMSes is enough, and the attackers are pushed back for a certain ammount of time.
    You can just cycle around the map the hot zones with Mass Redeploys and destroy the AMS.

    The deployment system was made for the typical solo player: give him a quick shortcut to the frontline, prioritize underpopped bases to even populations, artificially limit the spawn locations to prevent him from leaving his area.
    It completely ignores the fact that Outfits will abuse the shortcuts.

    I'm not saying Redeployment should be removed because there's always a way to go around it that Outfits will use to get an edge. But it should be coherent and avoid shortcuts altogether.
  13. Axehilt

    Definitely a fair point, and the game would certainly be deeper if instant teleports couldn't happen.

    But it's also not a cut and dry issue, since it certainly helps level the playing field between players who understand how to travel and those who don't (which of course is why the game is made shallower by the change: that knowledge matters less.) Unfortunately it's pretty hard to teach these players how to jump into a vehicle and zip over to the good battle nearby, because (a) they don't realize these options are available to them and (b) they don't know what the good battle looks like (they might not even be on the right continent to have a good battle.)

    Personally it's somewhat rare that I make use of the improved spawn options (except to spawn near a new front and then pull a vehicle from that closer base.) An ESF spawned from the warpgate can reach almost any base quickly.
  14. Goden

    I don't have the time, the desire, or the resources to pull a vehicle every time I want to move bases. I move between bases a lot depending on which are calling for reinforcements at the time.

    If you're going to limit my ability to get to a fight then I'm just going to log off and play another game. The last thing I want to do is play a game where I walk/drive around deserted lands to get to the front line every time I want to move around the map.
  15. John_Aitc

    PvE in Planetside is me trying to walk up a slight incline.
    • Up x 1
  16. Beeman

    But it's usually in the middle of an epic fight for me or when we just barely kicked out an army and I feel like the next base could use a little extra firepower on our end. Or when an enemy force starts to push back and our platoon lead loses confidence in our defense. Or something else just becomes a higher priority.

    Mostly, I pull a MAX for anti-air, not for killing infantry or vehicles, same with my lightning - always skyguard partyin'. But perhaps that's just me >_>
  17. Sigmundr Rumare

    Your point isn't really valid, because if the right changes were made to provide logistics in this game (more than just redeploying, though it's a major part), you wouldn't need to hop from base to base becaue your enemy is no longer hopping from base to base either. Allowing travel time and other logistics not only creates a deeper, more strategic game, it causes players to become more invested in the fights they participate in, often times making those fights more fierce and drawn out.
  18. Corporate Thug

    Don't take it personally, I just like more dynamic gameplay. Like i would pull something in response to a certain threat, not preemptively. You might not be needed in that role at the next base or the enemy might not even mount a defense. My concerns stem from seeing too many large groups with an assortment of vehicles moving down lanes with no one to fight. Lots of times i see people spawning to defend but once they see what the enemy has brought to the base, they just leave. You also will be able to fight zergs better if you wait to check out their composition and then pull in order to counter, instead of just showing up with what you have and it not being the proper composition to even dent the zerg. Right tool for the right job type of thing. You are free to play the way you want ofcourse, i was just putting that bug in your ear so you don't waste resources or your time. I always have enough resources to pull w/e unit because i don't just pull for the sake of pulling things, i do it in response and it helps me be a bit more effective. Like spawning a lightning and not really needing it might mean you can't pull a MBT when you get to some other base and the enemy has an abundance of them. Just think of all the times you go to some base and a good portion of the people can't contribute because they aren't in the correct role to do so, think of how many times that you've seen vehicle heavy zergs at biolabs and a vast majority pop but can't take it because people don't want to waste their resources.
  19. Beeman

    That's exactly what I do...or sometimes one of my friends will say "hey let's get in a prowler" or something and we roll out together.

    But you're right, there's an inherent problem with vehicles right now. They don't fill their respective roles properly. They shouldn't be as expendable as they are currently.

    Would also be interesting if there were more options in the way of reconnaissance to figure out where enemy troops are moving and what they've got goin' on. Then again, most troops can just teleport around so I guess recon would be a fruitless effort >_>