[Suggestion] Rebalancing Vehicle v Infantry Gamplay

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Scroffel5, May 31, 2021.

  1. Scroffel5

    Many people complain about this topic, so here are my fixes, taken from another thread.

    All that vehicle mumbo-jumbo has an easy enough fix to me. Don't allow resource point gain while you have a vehicle. People who main a vehicle will stay alive for, say 10 minutes, then they will go and spawn another vehicle, since it only takes 7 minutes to get another MBT. Boom. Now if they die, they will have to wait 7 minutes to get another vehicle, and the opposing team now has some relief from the vehicle spam. Taking out a vehicle is now much more important. The dude you just killed now can't get a full healthed vehicle again without waiting time, supposing he is going for an MBT and not just a Harasser. Dying matters. Coordinating your attack matters. Get 3 Heavies, flank, destroy it all at once. Get a few Light Assaults, attack it from the skies. Do something.

    To balance MBTs and make them harder to use, make the main cannon not lock when you are aiming it. Does that make sense from a war perspective? No, not really, but do you guys care about that? No, no you do not. If the gun is always trying to settle back down, it makes an added motion for your mouse. Instead of staying on a Y axis that is getting you kills and just sitting still and sniping people from a safe distance with your tank, you need constant readjustment. That'll help the problem, and the devs can increase or decrease how much it draws down on your main cannon to balance it.

    Thoughts? I can also elaborate more if you ask me to. I copy-pasted from a different thread, hence why it doesn't seem very coherent.
  2. Demigan

    This is basically what we had in the early days with the vehicle timers. If a player died it took a time for that player before he could spawn a new vehicle. When one faction won the vehicle battle you had a problem. Spawning a large enough vehicle group to defeat the opposing side was nigh on impossible and vehicle zergs were common. The only people who feel the relief are the very people who use the vehicles. The removal of the timers allowed defenders to more easily field vehicles and counter the attackers, even though it is still difficult.

    Rather than trying to nerf vehicles, buff infantry. Give them the tools to avoid fire or tank it through various means.
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  3. RabidIBM

    The stoppage of nantie production could work, but then the things that kill vehicles would need to be rebalanced, starting with the cloak flash. If this were done however, I think the tankers would be owed some buffs for their trouble. Then deploying the tank would be more of a commitment, seeing a tank would be more impactful, and destroying a tank would be more of an achievement.

    The constant dropping of the Y axis is a laughable no.

    I wouldn't say that either side of infantry versus vehicles needs to be buffed or nerfed, but that the whole thing needs to be rebalanced. Infantry being able to instagib the tank is honestly dumb, and anti tank rockets should do more than tickle the tank. The fact that anti tank rocket launchers do so little damage that an ATV can shrug them off is dumb.
  4. JustGotSuspended

    That's why the old system was very nice. With the timer it meant that each force multiplier pulled was much more valuable. It increased the need for teamwork and strategy. I can recall everyone repairing MAXes - even just randoms - back in the day because they were an important asset to that faction.

    There was a lot more thought put into pulling those things, and once you had them pulled, you weren't going to just redeploy across the map. You were going to push to the next base and clash on the way there.
  5. DarkStarAnubis

    I think it is good. It also make synergies between vehicles and engineers more valuable, damaged vehicles leaving the battlefield earlier for repair etc...

    The main gun stays in position (also IRL). To avoid tanks sniping infantry just:expand the gun CoF.
  6. Scroffel5

    Ya can't. Thats going to be too easy of a fix and have problems for the tank mains. Thats why its better to make their playstyle harder by making the tank cannon try to drop on you. That doesn't make much sense considering technology, but its a minor inconvenience to anyone who didn't rely on it previously.

    Fine, then you only get 25-50% of the resources while in vehicles as a defender. And honestly, no resource gain while in a vehicle only impacts those who have been in a vehicle for a while. If you got into a tank and died instantly, it wouldn't impact you at all because you weren't going to have any resource gain anyways. It doesn't impact defenders as much as attacks because of that. Attacks are sitting in vehicles forever, camping spawn points or whatever. Now if they die, its more meaningful.
    Yes, I had that in my other post too somewhere about Flashes. You'd have to raise the cost to 100 nanites if the Flash has a weapon on it. Thats more fair. You'd have to be alive for 2 minutes to get your money's worth. And if you nerf their damage against vehicles, I wouldn't mind, as long as killing a vehicle matters. And what are you talking about that an ATV can shrug off an anti tank launcher? It literally sets it on fire at 1 hit, and a Decimator destroys it. If they are on fire at one hit, they can't repair without fire suppression, which they won't be running. That means they are a free kill from then on, as they are moving much slower and can't repair.
  7. Mechwolf

    As an infantry main, all explosives across the board need buffs, tank mines, c4, rockets, anti-infantry guns on vehicles, the fury needs to be put back to its original state.

    All these nerfs hurt way more than helped. The only players who benefitted were heavy mains
  8. xMeserionx

    Only if they buff the nanite cost by reducing it, 450 nanites is alot.

    I don't see what is wrong with Vehicles vs. Infantry.

    What is the issue? that they win? considering they cost resources I'd be concerned if they didn't. I take issue with the existence of c4 fairies personally because of them having virtually no counter for vehicles. Let me attach a Spitfire turret to the top of my MBT or Lighting, then we'll talk about messing with nanite generation.

    As someone who plays all parts of the game, there is no issue. Its working as intended. Sorry infantry mains but because spawning costs nothing, you're cannon fodder on the power level totem pole. You're mines, explosives and rockets are weak because a squad (teamplay incentive) of you is very deadly. Armor play ironically is better for lower populations because you can do more with less.

    I'm sorry but solo infantry players complaining is frankly laughable in a game about squad and platoon play with HUGE battles. A solo player's opinion matters very little in the grand scheme.
  9. xMeserionx

    This game is about more than infantry, pull a Lightning every once in awhile and you'll see. All Infantry Main tells me is you only have 1 perspective in the game, and therefore you opinion is not that useful because your biases are all geared towards 1 style of play.

    Say we do what you suggest, well lets also revert lolpods and Hornet missiles too since you're talking about reverting explosives right? I'm willing to bet you'll cry "Nooooo" because it would make infantry play worse. Nerfs are in place to ensure that gameplay from all sides is more fair and balanced. Balance is not suppose to feel good and enjoyable, it helps everyone but gives no one what they want.
  10. Mechwolf

    By infantry main I do mean it's my preferred Playstation, I understand the skill ceiling of a magrider compared to the other 2 Mbts and so they're relatively balanced, but with newer players getting destroyed by the other 2 if they don't know when to boost/stay at range.

    The explosives are garbage, they still work but don't have the punch they need against infantry to feel worthwhile.

    Same goes for the lancer being destroyed
  11. Mechwolf

    I do use hornets now, but even in a team barrage lolpods are useless
  12. Scroffel5

    Its simple. You shouldn't gain nanites while in a vehicle so that if you destroy a vehicle, it matters. Vehicles should live for a long time if you play your cards right. I agree with your C4 fairies thing, but it doesn't make much sense to be able to live in a vehicle for ages, it takes a group of people to destroy you effectively and reasonably (if you aren't an annoying C4 fairy), then you can just spawn another tank and do it all over again. Sure, people should learn, but this community just doesn't, and we can't really force them to without a start. Thats why when you finally do destroy a vehicle, you should be rewarded with the idea that you have truly downed a vehicle. They can't come back in another vehicle instantly. Every vehicle you destroy matters more now, and so does every vehicle you lose. If this is the case, then vehicles can technically be as reasonably OP (yes that sounds like a contradiction) as they want to be, because if you destroy them, it'll take time to get another.

    If you buff AV any more, you are throwing off the internal balance of the game. It reduces the need for teamwork and the need to buy a tank with your resource points. You lose a reason to be a force multiplier if you aren't doing any force multiplying. They don't need to be buffed more. If you don't like that only heavy mains benefitted, then more viable AV options should be given to other classes in other regards while still leaving the HA as the go-to destroyer.

    All opinions are useful, but some opinions are wrong. Opinions are based on either feeling or a line of reasoning, and a line of reasoning can be wrong, therefore opinions can be wrong. However, you should still be respectful, otherwise no one will care about your opinions.

    With that said, yes, there are multiple ways to play, and there has to be some kind of balance in there. But the game should be fun for both sides. Infantry mains, learn to work together. Destroying vehicles together is more fun than dying to them solo. Vehicle mains, you are annoying to infantry mains. Recognize that before saying irritating things.
  13. TR5L4Y3R

    Add more AV option to ALL (yes infill too) classes

    Maxxes need more surviveability in general both against vehicles (specificaly daltonlibs and MBTmaincannons) and C4 (they NEED to survive at least 1) ... it should be able to tank damage, and give some limited squadsupport through some abilities .. i wouldn´t mind if its AI capabilities would be nerfed for that ...

    Medics need a AV grenadelauncher primary, or as lowhanging fruit or alternative for some AA the rockletrifle as primary ... MAYBE archer aswell

    Infil should get rockletrifle as primary be it for certs or as ASP token
    all classes (save LA) should get AV grenades with buffed damage ... if i have a fully certed grenadebelt that grenadebelt full of AV grenades should be enough to destroy a lightning from the back and a harasser maybe an ANT too, and get a MBT into a burning state ... a AV grenade should do significant damage to ESFs (like 40 to 50 % of health) .. maybe tickle Libs enough to be annoyed by it and scared when the whole belt is thrown at them ..

    smokegrenades should be available vor Certs by default to all classes, not ASP imho (exception could be infil but, lets face it emp grenade is the best grenade one could get for certs)
    nerf AP rounds against flakarmor again ... if people go to take AV protecetion they SHOULD have a tiny bit more surviveability against all tank maincannons and AV Turrets to survive at least one direct shot/salvo (it´s a friggin game still, not reality.. otherwise that one dang rocket should kill the tankdriver outright with the tank being disabled or barely operational) .. basilisk, kobalt and the like are already enough of a planetmansaw to deal with as infantry ..

    the overall gameballance should be so infantry can fight against vehicles AND offer them protection .. not infantry purely relying on vehiclesupport against other vehicles ...
  14. LordAnnihilator

    Or MAXes need their cost lowered. They aren't nearly as tanky OR as potent as an MBT, yet they cost the same, sometimes the tanks cost less due to discounts. Not by much mind, to prevent spam, but it's a bit silly they cost so much right now when certain builds are worth far less (an AA MAX is arguably less effective than a Skyguard, and costs more.)

    Not a terrible idea, but in that case the Archer would need buffs to achieve the stated goal. Archer is the Anti-MAX gun for Engineer, and doesn't do much to Vehicles without a group or a weak target. However, its worth noting that these options downplay Medics role - as a Medic. Medic thrives in Infantry on Infantry combat, and removing their ability to reliably fight Infantry (outside of some sidearms) whereas other Infantry get AV without sacrificing their primary (Except Engineer and MAX somewhat) doesn't feel like it would do well outside of Anti-Vehicle squads. Grenade Launchers also have their own problems - you can hardly use the Thumper against ESFs, or, well, much of anything due to travel speed and max distance.

    I do not, however, vibe with this. People already despise Infils for cloak shenanigans, and Light Assaults can bust vehicles very quick, and 2 C4 plus Rocklet burst is not liked. Giving the Stealth class the ability to sneakily bust down enemy vehicles does not sound like a good idea to me. It might not be as powerful as C4 and LAs mobility but its also impossible to see coming. It also gives another tool to the ever popular Wraith Flash clique, which gets it an automatic NOPE from me.

    Four of the existing HA AV grenades guaranteed downs a Harasser, 6 are needed for an ANT or a Lightning from all sides, 7 for MBTs except Vanguard which takes 8, ESFs die to 2, Valkyries to 3 (even from the bottom), Libs die to 4, Galaxies 7 to 8, and Bastion weak points die to 20. Which is a stat that needs to be known, somehow. So while I will agree AV grenades could use a buff to make them more potent, they are far from pathetic and can even do some of what you say. The issue with Air, however, is its a grenade. Its barely going to faze a Lib or even an ESF when they can immediately bugger off to get repairs. Buffing the grenades is a delicate thing, as they already do 750 direct damage - buffing them too much would make them risk matching Frags for AI work.

    Smokes are available to all classes via underbarrel smoke launchers, but I wouldn't be against this. Especially since only Infravision addicts will get much out of all class Smoke ASP.

    Allowing Infantry to survive AP rounds with Flak is a nice idea... Except HESH farmers exist because of its splash damage, not its OHK. And if AP rounds can't one shot hostile infantry, Lightnings lose some ability to counter LAs, and vehicles in general start losing way more Vs Infantry fights they should have won.

    This however we are in agreement on. Infantry AV and AA options need to be buffed, particularly vs Air, as Flak Rocket Launchers aren't particularly useful. Some Vehicle things however could use a buff of their own, like their own AA, which is either inaccurate or doesn't do much.
  15. OneShadowWarrior

    They spent way to much time nerfing the anti vehicle and anti air weapons for infantry to the point they are no threat and good luck with banking on teamwork with them. You’ll get stuck in spawn tubes if your outnumbered.

    They did the same with vehicles, they have been massively nerfed and once again rely on mass numbers to camp, another odd fit.

    They really made a nightmare of balance with there changes, compared to when the game was first released and somewhere in all this madness have loss sight of the fun factor. It’s not Planetside, it’s Campside.
  16. TR5L4Y3R

    you need to consider that the Max is the only (even though light) armored and repairable (as well as resurectable) unit to enter structures with vehiclegrade weapons, so i would be carefull with lowering its nanitecost ... if dbg were to go lowering the cost it shouldn´t be less than 350 or rather 375 nanites ..

    look, considering the average medic for the most part would be spending rezing engineers and heavies anyway rather than engaging infantry on the other side against the enemy vehiclecolum i would very much like for the medic to be able to chose the option for some AV capability over AI capability .. ...
    LAs with the rockletrifle may have default AV capability, yes, but in order to be effective require to get close and otherwise HAVE to use C4 in combination with the rockletrifle to quickly finish off the most armored vehicles ...

    heavy assaults simply are THE jack of all trades master of none - gruntunit but their light machineguns while on avarage having the largest magazines and theoretical killpotential they are the least accurate of all small caliber automatic weapons ... engineers either sacrifice AI capability with the archer already or mobility using any kind of stationary turret but the sentrygun (and AV turrets aren´t that good having to lead the missile all the way to target or risk it dropping to the ground) ..
    them laying AV mines depends mostly on chance or similarly with C4 requires them to get close to the target and even then further requre to be detonated with smallarms fire or grenades ...

    i´m willing to bet one lone (nonwraith) infill will not be able to destroy a lightning, much less a sunderer quick enough to survive the average engagement but rather against unsuspecting or unprotected vehicles OR if they are in groups of 2 or 3 .. here is the thing: like you mentioned with the medic he will lose his primary AI capability and would have to rely on his secondary for his own protection ..

    take the heavy assault with full AV grenade belt and default rocketlauncher to see how quickly you can take out a lightning or sunderer ... then consider how much closer a rockletrifleuser has to be for a full magdump (almost equal to a single rocket) especialy with typhoonsmmo ...
    if you just go and singlefire the default ammo you´ll take much longer to destroy said vehicle ..

    it´s not impossible to see a infil comming, you can always hear them decloaking and if close enough see their silluete ... what could be done (something i mentioned in another thread) is to add a slight delay (mostly cause of latencyissues) to them decloaking and maybe specifically for the huntercloak to take away shieldhealth while active ... also imho the flash being a close range glasscannon for backstabbing and especialy with the cloak having to be inactive in order to be able to fire is fair game, again the flash doesn´t offer full protection to its pilot .. heaving a wraith flash with an explosivebolt infil and additional heavy assault, light assault or AV engineer is already possible .. it still just takes one rocket or AP round to the vehicle to blast it to pieces, not easy with its speed but possible ... the only thing that pisses me off about the wraithflash is how easily it roadkills maxes

    you are right they still are grenades, they aren´t ranged missiles, so you still need to be rather close ...
    they don´t need to do incresed damge to infantry, what you could do is to increase Vehicle vullnerability to them

    lightnings have their default mainturret for both AV and AI which even from my limited experience seems actualy to do a good job ... Hesh in particular however is broken with how the splash even goes through walls and as infanty you can´t get even get direct line of sight to hope fighting it ... AP IS purely antivehicle and if a tankkdriver choses to go pure AV than that SHOULD have the disadvantage of not outright killing infantry in one hit (and i say that as someone who spawns AP lightnings) ... i mean again both lightnings and MBTs are heavy armor, the MBT easily has access to AI secondary turrets, no problem ... as mentionet before lightnings do well with just the viper default cannon they don´t need the AP to be one hit kill
    and infantry can´t do jack without any form of AV weaponry ...