Ready for Testing - Implants

Discussion in 'Test Server: Announcements' started by Nak, Apr 23, 2014.

  1. Beeman

    I posted my opinions about implants in another thread, but I may as well dump them here as well.

    I don't dislike implants. I don't see why we need them now, but I'm not really complaining about them being the current focus of development. However, I'd like it if there were more...I guess depth to the way that they're handled. I like that you can convert some implants to other implants and by combining lots of them, you can create higher-tier implants and I don't even mind that they require implant charge which you resupply with battery-like items.

    However, I feel that this could be an opportunity to add a little purpose to some of the larger bases. Maybe you can only combine or craft implants at a tech plant or biolab or something like that. Or at the warpgate if your faction holds those types of bases(perhaps both). Maybe amp stations are one way for you to charge your implants for about an hour of gameplay. Or half an hour...or some other number that would work pretty well to make it feel like you don't have to be buying chargers or whatever.

    Pretty much implement as many free ways to utilize implants as possible and then people won't mind nearly as much that there's an option to charge them with SC...and many people will gladly do so just for the convenience of it whereas right now, people might boycott the system, the game or even SOE in general because they think this system is pay-to-win.

    Also, implementing actual purpose to the larger bases will make those bases more valuable targets to take and/or hold. That's just one of the many things that Planetside 2 really needs to make it a truly next-gen experience.
    • Up x 3
  2. Tenebrae Aeterna

    [IMG] x 8 List

    This should pretty much tell you what we think about this concept. The first iteration was trash, the second was trash, the third is also trash...and the pay to win aspect continues to be a very prominent aspect of the entire concept.

    No one wants a consumable that costs certification points or station cash. I've expressed, in vivid detail, my thoughts on the implant system...but after three iterations of the same crap just tweaked differently to try and throw a sugar coated spin onto's obvious you're not interested in listening to us. I haven't played the game since this was announced, and it doesn't look like I'll be making a return...I expect others to follow if this continues to be the direction that the game heads.

    I truly hope that the development team reconsiders this and finally starts listening to the community on what they do not want implemented...otherwise, these decisions are going to reflect the future of Everquest: Next and H1Z1.
    • Up x 4
  3. PA1NKI11ER

    That's what I'm saying, make the implants a feature in the world itself, it would add so much more development, value, and rewarding experiences for players to play the game the way it is designed to be played! That would make Planetside 2 stand out from other shooters that use "Perks" and such. I would not give the slightest care if they pushed the implants back to June along with Hossin if they do something along the lines with what we're saying.
    • Up x 1
  4. RIctavius

    • "Implants are no longer timed, consumable items
      • Implants are permanent items
      • Implants are now powered by an implant power core (details below)
    • All players start out with a default implant
    • Players can earn implant rewards through gameplay in addition to buying them with Certification Points or Station Cash like a standard item
    • Implants can now be equipped in custom loadouts instead of only equipping them on the character"
    Pretty damn sure this is the update to feedback
    • Up x 2
  5. Tenebrae Aeterna

    The implants are permanent...but they don't do **** unless they're powered, which is a consumable item that can be purchased for station cash or certification points. Like I said...three iterations of the same crap, tweaked ever so slightly in an effort to shove the same thing down our throats.

    Pay to win.

    Not only is the system absolute trash compared to the original system in Planetside Vanilla, but it's a system designed specifically to generate income. It's a poor design being forced in after the majority said no three times, and why? Money. Money they now, apparently, need because they didn't keep the community members that left due to their inability to implement core gameplay features in a timely manner. I was one of the individuals telling these people to calm down and give them a year.

    It's been a year.

    A free to play game that goes pay to win is a failure. If they couldn't put out a free to play game without letting it degrade into a pay to win, it should have been subscription based and ran off those in the original community. I, myself, wouldn't have even played because I don't play subscription based games......................but THAT is what they should have done if they couldn't make a successful free to play game.

    Why? Because NO ONE likes when a free to play game becomes pay to win. The free based players feel screwed and leave, the paying players no longer have people to play with, the game burns.
    • Up x 3
  6. RIctavius

    The item that powers them can be picked up for free. Now what you seem to be arguing for is that implants and chargers should be a free, earned item rather one paid for by cash.

    Granted, paying in cash for these items is what essentially would make "pay to win" but aswell you have the ingame currency to pay for these items so therefore its not "pay to win". But then whats the argument of having implants in the first place, if people are going to moan that this would be a free handout to newer players (due to the fact you can earn these items after killing so many people after a while) (even then update shows every player will have a starter implant on their loadouts in the updated notes) .

    Honestly just scrap the concept entirely, its not worthy trying to "balance" it for the community - since this practically doesn't deserve any attention.

    Besides if you have the choice of "grinding " to get the free stuff, compare to buying for what is "pick from the hat and get what you get" then I'd rather grind (this is the current system proposed)
    • Up x 1
  7. GaBeRock

    All this ofher brouhaha about implants aside, I'm glad rangefinder is being implemented. Time to make milldot tables for UBGL/rocketlauncher/Phalanx AV turrets/bulldog/etc to get my artillery going :)
    • Up x 1
  8. LagLight

    The only current implant effect that I don't like is the Anti-radar or motion detection implant.

    That implant is going to piss me off beyond belief.

    I mean whats the f---ing point of spending certs to get max rank in recon device if its not going to work.

    There is nothing more annoying than thinking a game mechanic / ability is going to f---ing work, only to have it f---ing stab you in the back and troll you because of another player's 'unforeseeable' implant ability.

    Please do not keep the anti-motion sensor implant in the game.
    • Up x 2
  9. LLancaster

    Tested out the implants a bit, found them pretty underwhelming. They're nice little extras but don't really add much to the game. In their current iteration, I'll be spending my SC on weapons and cosmetics and not on implants.
  10. Akachi

    The good and bad about the new system

    1) A new level of customization in the game, adding both depth and variety to an individuals style of play.
    2) A nice certification sink for players who have amassed far too many certs
    3) A nice amount of assistance on the battlefield for new and veteran players.
    4) Can drop randomly with kills, giving a nice incentive to keep player

    The bad about the system

    1) Gachapon draw system- An annoying lottery system that exploits its player by giving them little option other than buying the same item multiple times in the hopes of gaining the one they actually want. Everyone would rather pay MORE for an item they actually want, then pay less to enter a lottery for the chance of getting it.

    2) Over powered / inappropriate implants. There is nothing balanced about the health Regen device. It either should be a universal ability that can be unlocked solely with certs or removed entirely. EOD HUD may not be overpowered per say, but it renders too many utilities less effective. This would be far better as a class specific ability such as engineer or infiltrator, maybe even light assault.

    I think the system can work as long as some of the more undesirable aspects of the feature are fixed, however I do not feel that they are ready for launch in their current state.
    • Up x 2
  11. salembeats

    In case you don't remember WDS, granting people rewards for merely capturing territory (with no regard to the effort put into the capture) leads to very poor gameplay for PS2.
    People end up looking for the path of least resistance, which results in zerging up a single undefended lattice line with a faction's entire population while opponents zerg up other undefended lines.
    No regard is given to those of us who win hard-fought victories.

    The current system is fine, depending on the drop rate. If the drop rate is so infrequent that you essentially need to purchase implants/batteries to be competitive, then it becomes fairly P2W.
  12. salembeats

    How about adding an Implant which shows a class-specific icon for every unit on the minimap? That's what I was hoping for in the Infil update when the Motion Spotter promised "more detailed information" than the Recon Darts.

    It'd be nice to know that there's friendly medics nearby, and that those spotted enemies happen to be HA units.
  13. SKYHEX

    Since it has been 10 days, I suppose I will post an e-mail I sent to Smed and Higby. Looks like the spam filter doesn't like me very much.

    I understand they need extra ways to make cash, especialy since subs are now all-access, and I am sure they want a good chunk of the distributed pool, so generating lot of single sales is mandatory for street cred :p

  14. RiceLeaf

    One of the most downvoted ideas ever, but it's still pulling through. I think the idea behind this is SOE trying to make something simillar to Titanfall's burncards. There were implants back in ps1, but they weren't consumable, timed, or randomly acquired back then. All of these things, to me, scream burn cards from Titanfall, or some other card system from some other game.

    My opinion is they should have just kept the implant system from ps1. If they really want to push something as monetarily exploitable as this, they should have called it something else, like alien artifacts that need to consume your lifeforce in order for them to work. At least that makes sense, because right now it doesn't. I can pull a tank using resources but those same resources are not valuable enough to get me a small battery? Lol.

    And random crafting and acquisition from implant packs of five? What's next, slot machines at the warpgate? Poker tables? Zynga Planetside? Why don't you add resources from Facebook friends while you're at it, lol. Really, this sounds like something you can find in a cheap android/browser game. I'm all for the game making more money and more people paying for stuff, but not at the expense of breaking the game and making it look cheap. Everyone loses with this.

    You need more Planetisde 2 players SOE, and implants do not add anything cool to the game, and are certainly not going to help in that regard. In fact, it may drive other players away. You're shooting yourselves in the foot.
  15. libbmaster

    Implants are a passive buff, some of which are sometimes useful in all situations, and sometimes only in specific ones, that can be bought with SC or earned in game.

    You know what else works like that? The entire game.

    New weapons are active buffs that are sometimes useful in all situations, and sometimes only in specific ones, and can be bought with SC and ingame currency.

    Xp boosters are passive buffs that flat out increase a player's experience gain, which Directly translates in to increased cert gain, which Directly translates into Suit-slot upgrades and weapon attachments, which are both passive gains that are sometimes useful in all situations, and sometimes only in specific ones... just like implants. Xp boosters are SC only.

    Resource boosters are passive buffs that flat out increase a player's resource gain, which Directly translates into better access to vehicles than the average player, which Directly translates into increased player performance and increased cert gain. They are also only available with SC.

    Implants will bring nothing new in terms of micro-transactions to PS2. This new iteration is the most balanced yet, (baring one or two controversially good implants) and the negative reactions to it are entirely unfounded.
  16. CuteBeaver

    Bigger Picture:
    (re-post to proper topic)
    (I am trying to wrap my head around what SOE Developers are aiming towards with implants, beyond monetary value.)

    The implants provided on test right now, grant abilities to players which are more powerful then our suit slots. I have to assume THIS IS INTENTIONAL on SOE's part. A suit slot, like nanoweave, or flak has no costs associated with it beyond the cert unlocks, and lower ranks can be obtained easily. It stands to reason, something with an ongoing cost, has a valid argument to be powerful. I think the idea of 3 different tiers of implants, and rates of energy consumption are a responsible way to handle this mechanic. Adjust the lowest (green) one to consume less energy and I think you have a winning system. The reason I am recommending this is because people do AFK, or wait at warpgate for orders. You need to allow some down time without people feeling punished.

    The Future:
    We know based on what SOE has posted concerning the resource revamp... map locations, and their energy levels will dictate what a player can use at any given moment. This could be med kits, or max suits. The resource revamp will shape Planetside 2's larger game and punish massive zergs by burning out the facilities when too many players are present. This will be a positive change for the game and it needs to be done sooner rather then later.

    Based on what we know, and what we can infer, implants are player controlled, independent resources. All we need to focus on right now (not pay to win - or id be here all night) is that players can shape how we use implants, and manage our personal energy levels.

    So, at the very least implants give us a small means of resource control, and a fake sense of specialization.

    Fake Sense of Specialization???:

    Every class can do just about everything. Planetside 2 doesn't force us to pull LA"s to get over walls. Some of us can climb trees or boxes and jump fences. Nor does Planetside 2 force you to use an engineer in a vehicle. Which is fine overlap works in a very chaotic game. Implants however, are not going to set you apart as an engineer, if another engineer is standing next to you, for most purposes, you are the same. These implants do not drastically impact that reality. All the implants are made for everyone no matter your class or suits equipped.

    I think this is a mistake.

    Classes are already watered down.

    If SOE had gone a little bit deeper, and made class specific implants, even just two each per class, implants would be allot less frustrating and more meaningful. Players could anticipate an enemy infiltrator might be using EMP Shield, or even Sensor Shield. In the case of Sensor shield, this would make cloak sounds their warning to visually check more often and expect false negative radar signatures. Not having class restrictions makes everything feel more random. Sensor shield feels more random when there is no way to predict an outcome, the game runs the risk of people feeling cheated. I would imagine there could be some overlap. For example the loud jetpack on light assaults would also work as a warning mechanism and arguably they should have access to Sensor Shield as well.

    For EMP's knowing only enemy infiltrators can use EMP shield means more reliable usage of the grenade. The same thing could be said if clear vision was restricted to HA. On that topic I feel flash grenades should be removed from clear visions influence, and given their own implant type. Then restricted to LA's which would allow them to breach rooms w/o fearing every single HA is wearing clear vision.

    Just imagine that based on your implant, you become very good at something and that helps define you within your classes roles. There isn't enough implants available to paint a good mental picture so just try your best to imagine along. A heavy assault with clear vision would be an excellent example. You'd want this person on defensive duty guarding a point. Fully certed this implant provides NEAR conc immunity. Lets pretend there was something else equally awesome and offensive based instead. You would want that offensive HA player attacking. Each class ends up with different specializations based on their implants.

    Right now, everyone can do everything and it makes zero sense. People are going to pick something which works well with their favorite loadout and play-style. I understand SOE you don't have to regulate, because we as players self-regulate and minimize and maximize for ourselves. However by putting the onus on the players, it leaves allot of random choices being made. It takes away from the predictability of encounters. It takes away your power to balance certain implants by avoiding abuses as well.

    Reducing Chances For Abuse:

    HA's can drop from 250 meters with safe landing and survive. Do you want this? All they need to do is use their shield right before touchdown. One medkit later they are fine. To avoid abuse you could simply not allow HA's to use safe landing. Instead, light assaults have safe landing as an option only available to them.

    I wish SOE, that you would reconsider only having common pool implants. Please consider taking things out like EMP shielding and Clear Vision, and returning them to the game later as class specific. Release more class implants slowly giving additional choices to specialize for different perks without breaking the game or making people feel frustrated.


    Regardless, I believe SOE that your not going to restrict implants because Planetside 2's entire game design is based on allowing everyone basically doing everything.

    Give someone enough time they will have everything available to them. Which is good but it also places more emphasis on your own experiences rather then loadout choices. The conclusion I am inching towards is that implants are not made to make us feel special or be specialized. Ultimately implants take away from the tactical depth of the game. Their influence cannot be anticipated until after an action has occurred. Implants just become a more expensive suit slot which has an energy requirement on it. You have done very well reaching this point. However I would seriously look at the most offending implants and temporarily remove them before this goes live.
    • Up x 2
  17. SKYHEX

    I disagree that they are passive buffs. The (quite obvious and low-hanging) example is the EOD HUD. That is an active gameplay element, which by this system, is to be acquired by RNG. Even if one of the selection is non-passive in the system, there are no ifs or buts.

    I want the implants to be active and managed as a cert/SC drain, but get the bloody RNG out of the equation. RNG is the most infuriating gameplay mechanic ever. It FUBARed PS1s core gunplay with ridiculous randomized CoFs combined with eon long TTK. That and the bloomin pajamas.

    The currency in this game is not like you describe, it is based on careful planning and investments. It is not a flowing cash to be spent and acuired in ridiculous quantities.
  18. MrJengles

    I don't see that as necessary. ASC would still reduce people's shield timers by 4(?) seconds whether you're using an implant or not.

    Good point. Default implant shouldn't run out of power (not that I want a power system).
  19. PA1NKI11ER

    But you see that negates the point of drifter jets! There is not one good aspect I see about this implant, next to the regeneration, in terms of balanced, class-based gameplay...
    • Up x 1
  20. CuteBeaver

    I think SOE has to nerf Safe Landing heavily if they want it to be common pool. 150 meter (non HA) non lethal drops is just silly. Your right about the drifter jets being less effective, i had not considered it would render their ability less meaningful.
    • Up x 1