Ravens too Versatile?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by iller, Dec 14, 2014.

  1. iller

    [TL;DR : skip to the bottom underlined header]
    So here's what I do when I'm taking a break from sniping... I either go Medic, or like last night, pull Bursters / Skyguard b/c I find the Cert gain from it good enough for me (10k-ph), AND engrossing as opposed to, say, going repair/ammo Engie or LibChav which just makes me.... *nnngh*, I better not even say...

    So I'm NOT expecting kills or even going for kills. But this is what's been happening more often:


    ....b/c the AA dries up, I hit a terminal and change to AV Deterrent duty instead of wasting the suit
    (But ground vehicles are NOT where a lot of those kills are coming from ...and I'll get to that point later)

    AV Duty:
    So these things exist to be not just mere ground vehicle deterrents, but SCREECHING ANNOYING TROLOLOL SPAM against Strafe-happy risk-averse ground vehicles OPS who let's be honest here, are also being Scumbags of equal scumminess to Raven spammers. Those players who specifically rely on long range camping instead of a full Lockdown & Repair tanking crew, are not going to be having a good time when we've got a line of Ravens spammed at them. And there is nothing the Devs can really do with their usual balance tweaks toolbox that will change that annoyance factor. Lowering the sub-par weaker-than-some-pistols damage they do, or RoF won't change that for NC MAXes who know how to be successful trolls. Infact I'd argue this is their 1 true purpose. The NC are not supposed to be pushovers in longer range fights. Especially those NC who know how to Burst fire.

    AI mid-Range:
    Probably the best AP "rocket platform" you can get in and walk around on jaggy cliffs with, without worrying about BASR 1-shots like ManaAV engies subject themselves to.... oh... and these Ravens just so happen to also be capable of dealing with those dance-happy BR 70+'s who think they're hot TRay at mid range exploiting 0.75 ADS weaps.

    If you've faced enough ADADADADAD "pros" & you've seen their gimmick enough times, then you can hit them consistently with ravens at most ranges. (and I'd LOVE to keep that functionality b/c I think that spazzy stuff needs more methodical hard-counters) It's their fault IMO, Raven splash is a joke; they aren't dying to splash, let me get that out there right now. And that splash will never kill a bunnyhopping player with Flak armor before he has time to get far away. They can adapt to that, they're "pros" right?

    Which brings me to my main point finally.... CQC:
    My observation so far where in I actually start feeling a bit guilty, has been that when it headshots newer players especially in CQC, the fight stops feeling even remotely fair. DasAnf rates my infantry HSR as an A++, am I just an Outlier here? And what about the composite numbers of body shots and headshots? How much protection does Flak really give to that? How much of the Raven's body & head collision damage is actually Explosive? And is running Flak even a fair demand to put on Infantry who are expecting a bunch of regular bullets to be fired at them? Should the Raven even be allowed to deal that headshot bonus in the first place; should it be like the Phoenix which can't deal them?

    Is the whining period for this rocket over with? Or will it just be the next target now that the Banshee got nerfed?
    Am I wrong?, if so, What range should it be easiest to counter Ravens in if it remains a "problem loadout"?
  2. Paragon Exile

    They just need their splash damage removed and they'll be fine, maybe make their reload a bit longer. Note that the "splash" damage is added to the "direct" damage when you directly hit someone, making the weapon stronger than it appears. Currently they are too powerful against infantry, and they kill vehicles faster than an AP vanguard :/

    If I'm understanding your question correctly, Ravens should be bad against infantry at all ranges, have relatively low DPS (like Vortexes/Lancer) and be very accurate at range. All long range AV weapons should be that way, or they are unbalanced.
  3. Alarox

    The problem with Ravens at long range is same as Vortexes at long range. Both are broken.

    I would say the same thing about Ravens in CQC and Pounders, but Pounders are clearly better. Many times better.
    • Up x 4
  4. AlterEgo

    How about this:
    Let the Ravens be.
    Buff other stuff. Seriously, the Raven is a unique weapon, so why nerf it when we can make other things unique and more fun to use?
  5. _itg

    Ravens don't get a headshot bonus. The game notes when you got a headshot, but you don't deal any more damage. Same thing with other rockets, tank cannons, etc.
    • Up x 2
  6. iller

    ^No bonus damage?? Is that really true? How can you test that exactly?

    But isn't that the entire thing that makes them "Fun"?

    Won't that have to be offset with a direct damage buff so they'll still "feel" effective at long range AV?
  7. Paragon Exile

    Because Ravens unleash all my pent up rage and resentment. They're annoying to fight, irritating and overpowering their counterparts.
    • Up x 2
  8. Alarox


    Compare the math to in-game results.
  9. FateJH

    Higby already said the next pass will modify the Ravens in some way. (Or has that already happened?)

    As for the annoying sound, I've already suggested that the bulk of the audio be moved to the launcher side of the Ravens and the audio profile for rockets themselves be reduced unless they really are right on top of you. I'll just repeat that proposal here.
    • Up x 3
  10. iller

    Thanks for being so specific :rolleyes:
    • Up x 1
  11. AlterEgo

    So, buff the Vortex.
    Leave Fracture alone, no one likes it.
    • Up x 1
  12. DFDelta

    Replace Fractures with dual new-style Strikers. :eek:
    Hilarious. Not effective, but quite hilarious.

    About Ravens:
    - "Readjust" indirect damage (also known as: reduce it by a lot).
    - Reduce sound volume.
    - Slightly reduce missile agility. (No really, slightly)
    No more complaints.

    About Vortex/Lancer:
    - Add a slight damage drop to extreme ranges. (as far as I know both completely lack damage drop if charged)
    - Reduce damage against Valks (Valks die to them faster then ESF do and are much easier to hit)
    - Give Lancer a slight increase to its zoom level.
  13. sL360

    Argh, screw fractures entirely. Replace them with dual Vulcans on MAX. The new, shiny soon-to-be-buffed Vulcans.

    Problem solved. (I think. Lol.)
    • Up x 1
  14. AlterEgo

    Bring back ZOE, and I think it'll be the most epic thing ever!:D
  15. Alarox


    A single Raven deals 335 direct and 115 splash. Two Ravens therefore deal 670 direct and 230 splash for a total of 900 damage.

    If there was a headshot multiplier then one volley to the head would kill infantry. It doesn't.
    • Up x 6
  16. z1967

    They do really well against infantry in that they are guided and are 3 hit kill weapons (like pounders). Arguably, both pounders and Ravens need an AI nerf and the Raven needs a range cut so that it doesn't do damage past render range. Pounders need a slight velocity/drop buff (they underperform in AV) because they are very bad at range compared to the other first gen AV weapons. Vortexes need the same range nerf as the Ravens. Lancer, MANA AV turret, and other weapons also need to be nerfed in this regard as well.
    • Up x 2
  17. iller

    Well that's where my impression came from I guess....
    I put down an infiltrator instantly with that 1-salvo double-punch and got that "headshot" message.
    I guess I have no suggestion then for fixing it. I really really want it to remain a threat against ADADADAD'ers tho'...
  18. Crayv

    What about the Vortex's effectiveness against air? Any aircraft bigger than an ESF is not that hard to hit unless it keeps its distance or evades like crazy (meaning it isn't going have an effective attack run)?

    As it is now. Ravens are good at ranged AV and AI (this part could maybe use a slight toning down), however up close I find their AI becomes less effective. Vortex is good at ranged AV and AA (except for ESFs). Fractures have been nerfed to crap and are not really good for anything at the moment, so TR uses Pounders which are good at med. to close AV and good at AI.

    That all sounds rather balanced to me. Comets and Fractures could stand a buff though. Any further nerfs could start a cascade effect of nerfs like the PPA and Banshee went through.
  19. Paperlamp

    These things are nonsensically overpowered as AV weapons while still being fairly strong against infantry.

    You knee jerk nerf tons of other things, how about you send just a bit of that NC's direction?

    They're way more out of line than the Banshee and should be first in line.
  20. NLLN

    Agreed. They should nerf ravens... Right after they make the NC max useful past 10m.
    • Up x 3