I found that the Vortex is a pretty nice AI weapon if you hit the heads. And Lightnings can be very fast destroyed with fast shootings. Once i could shoot down an ESF but this was luck. Nothing else. Stationary targets are victims but attacking MBT´s with Vortexes? Not a good idea unless there are launchers and/or other Vortexes ready. Fast vehicles like Flash and Harraser are very unpredictable to shoot. Maybe you hit, maybe not. But low flying (hovering) Galaxies and Liberators are nice to shoot. Not necessarily to destroy but to shoot and force them to retreat. That is what a single normaly AA MAX do. Why not with Vortex? Only minus are the small magazins. Whatever the muzzle velocity says the laser bullets are relative slow. You can follow them with your eyes.. 1 second, 2 second, 3 second.. Impact.. or missing. And the Raven can do all what a Vortex can do and more. The Raven is the best MAX weapon in PS2. And it is the only longe range weapon the NC can have beside the sniper weapons. So, it is fine. It is good that NC have the Raven.
The Ravens are extremely difficult to use against Infantry in short range and at range the Vortexes/Fractures can do the same damage to infantry. Pounders are garbage at range to they should be usable close range against infantry. You have Comets that aren't difficult to use against infantry. I've used all six of the MAX AV options (Falcon,Pounder,Comet,Raven,Fracture,Vortex) and I can say without a doubt that the Comets are the most reliable AV weapon to use against infantry with the Pounders close behind. Have you used all the Faction specific MAX AV in a battle before?
What I used is irrelevant. Lets see what the stats show for all three weapons: First of all, here's a usage for all three weapons: So, in terms of usage, Comets and Pounders are at about the same place, while Ravens are lagging behind. Nothing out of the ordinary, the former two are less expensive cert wise, so a higher usage is to be expected. Now, lets see the amount of kills made by these weapons: As we can see, Pounders are way ahead in terms of overall performance compared to either NC and VS weapons. VS and NC weapons are about equal in overall kills per time. Now, lets see how effective the same weapons are against vehicles: So, Ravens first, Comets second and Pounders dead last. All those kills that put Pounders right at the top are infantry kills, not vehicles. And you were right about Comets being better than Ravens at killing infantry, as shown by this last chart (equal at overall kills, worse at vehicles, means the extra kills come from infantry). About Vortexes though? : 16013 - NCM2 Falcon-Left | Uniques | Daily Average: 729.76 16032 - Vortex VM21-Left | Uniques | Daily Average: 212.60 16028 - NCM3 Raven-Left | Uniques | Daily Average: 609.88 Nop, any way you want to look at it, Vortexes perform worse than any of the NC MAX weapons. They perform on par with the TR Fractures both on total kills and vs vehicles (I overdid it with charts, so take my word for it) In conclusion, the overall performance of the NC MAX AV weapons is better than those of the VS with better anti-vehicle performance overall, the TR have better anti-infantry performance out of their MAX AV weapons, while VS overall are equal or worse than either NC or TR on both anti-vehicle and anti-infantry.
Comets are quite bad AI weapons due to requiring a double salvo to hit (as opposed to Falcons) and the slow velocity. Hitting infantry with a salvo once is do-able, hitting them twice is nigh impossible if your opponent has a clue. If you are able to reliably and effectively kill infantry with Comets that says more about your foes than about the weapon. Only time I use Comets effectively (as in, being a preferable option to other AI/AV weapons) is in guarding the exists of a spawnroom in Biolabs. Vortexes suck at AI, which does not matter, and are mostly in a good place in my opinion. There are these instances in which a salvo of my Vortexes kills a stationary infiltrator at 300m, but these are very rare.
While I can clearly see that they slightly underperform in Vehicle Kills, it's also important to note the amount of VS that actually USE the Vortexes, they are a weapon that requires a CERTAIN usage. Now granted the Fractures/Comets/Falcons/Pounders are all weapons of Fire and Forget type of playstyle, the Ravens and Vortexes play very differently. Ravens for example have you completely in line of sight with your enemy vehicle at ALL times, the very skilled users of these weapons are able to fire them and quickly duck while maintaining cursor contact yes, but it doesn't mean that every user of ravens has had enough practice to simply pick up and destroy. They are limited by severe range penalties, much like the Phoenix. They are a more short ranged, low velocity AV Mana Turret with more damage output on a bigger target. The Vortexes are a very different weapon in all terms, charging gives you amazing ALPHA strike damage to the rear/sides of an enemy tank, which while nice isn't their primary use as it has much lower DPS overtime, HOWEVER if used from the safety of cover Vortexes are very powerful, you can charge behind cover and release on an enemy Vanguard and watch him try his best to slowly reverse out of line of fire. Spamming them after the first charge is usually the best way to achieve consistent DPS since as soon as the big ALPHA charge hits the enemy vehicle will flee like a cat on fire. Both of their AI potential is weak and limited anyway as is ALL MAX AV weapons, that shouldn't be a deciding factor on any weapons Overpoweredness, simply put if you compare their AV effectiveness you can see that the Vortexes do underperform but the reason for that could be very simple. It's a costly weapon that not many VS see as a better alternative to the Comets, since the Comets play simpler.
First of all yes it is important to have experienced all six to tell for yourself if it is fair. For example, Ravens took time to be good with (in situations outside of 50 to 100 meters). The velocity is a huge factor because you have to lead your targets plus the fact that you need to stay on target for the full duration of your clip and the fact you recoil every time you shoot along with the bouncing that comes in when you strafe. So why should a Vortex that has non of these negative aspects be as strong or stronger with its current benefits? When I play VS, which I do often, I rarely see Vortexes used compared to when I play NC I see Ravens all the time (which you proved). Does that make them too good? No. Most people probably prefer the Ravens to the Falcons and the same for VS maybe people prefer the Comets to the Vortexes because perhaps they like the feel of the Comets. Vortexes are a lay back and pick apart type of weapon so if that play style is not fun to most then they won't be used. In terms of quality weaponry the Vortex is great BUT only if you charge them. If you hit a vanguard 12 times compared to 4 times then you will do less damage. Why? Because of resistance. All of this below is just an example not actual numbers! If they resist 20% off for 3 shots then it makes the damage a joke but 20% off of one big damage reduces the total amount subtracted. So if It does 300 damage charged (just a random number) you loose 60 damage but if you spam (so 100 damage because 3 shots equals 300) you loose 30 damage each shot (90 total). That means you do 50% less damage. You could say the charge up is wasting time that would could have been shooting but the rate of fire is pretty slow so it doesn't make up the difference. My point is the reason people don't use Vortexes is because: - Personal preference/play style - Believe they are weak because they do not understand how to use them
ravens have a range limit, its somwhere around 400 i think. I am not sure were the damage degredation of the vortex starts (I am a comet guy myself), but with the Lancer it starts it degradation beyond the range any other HA launcher could be used. Vortex does not take long to charge, you can however hold a charge for several seconds, if you are waiting for the charge to go off on its own you are adding your hold time to your charge time and are decreasing your dps MASSIVELY. for some dps numbers, (though this is using old values) 2x vortex runs at 560 dps for charges shots 2x vortex runs at 840 dps for uncharged shots and ravesn run at 632 dps for a pair. thats using tank resistance, I am pretty sure that sunder resistance will put vortex ahead in dps, just like it does with lancers out dpsing decimators agaisnt sunders (mind you the front loaded nature will let the decimator kill the sunderer 1 second faster, but lancer will kill a second sunderer faster, and likely kill blockade sundys faster). ie, ravens cannot kill 3 tanks before vortex kills one. mind you thats with older numbers, i can rerun with more up to date info in a few days
Not sure what the two of you are trying to debate. Vortexes under perform compared to either the NC MAX weapons and are on par with the TR Fractures (who incidentally are a worse version of Ravens right now). Ravens need time to be good? Give me a break. What is easier to use, a laser guided weapon that you can adjust your miscalculated aim on the fly or a weapon that you need to predict where the target will be at the time of impact and can't adjust for any miscalculations, like the Fractures? The saving grace of the Vortexes is the speed. In theory that would make them a weapon that should perform better tan Fractures, however reality shows that this is not the case. Bottom line is that Ravens is by far the easiest weapon people use to get results against vehicles. Results of thousand of people using them speak louder than personal bias.
Not sure how you came into the conclusion that the performance difference between the Vortex and the Raven is due to the cert cost, considering that they both cost the same. As for Comets and Vortexes playing different, I also don't agree. Those two are pretty much the same weapon with the Vortexes having less damage but more speed and the charge mechanism. Apart from that, the actual handling of the weapon (aiming, leading etc.) is identical. In fact: 17013 - Comet VM2-Left | Vehicle KPH | Daily Average: 3.34 16032 - Vortex VM21-Left | Vehicle KPH | Daily Average: 3.15 16028 - NCM3 Raven-Left | Vehicle KPH | Daily Average: 4.11 As you can see, almost identical results against vehicles between Comet and Vortex.
Interesting fact: both left and right Ravens and Fractures have more or less identical performance (against vehicles at least) while right Vortex performs significantly better then the left one. Any idea, why?
MUHAHAHAHA!!! Well spoken - You are actually an Nc with a VS portrait right? Havent heard such a bunch of BS in a long time: ==== ****** proof evidence that the group vs single user weapon argument stinks ==== Now place 5 RAVEN equipped Maxes !!! (which almost never miss and got 5 times the dmg per Mag of Vortex) against 5 Vortex equppied Maxes !!! (lowerst dmg of all AV weapons 1/5 dmg of Raven per Mag) =====>>>> GUESS WHAT - the RAVENS are still 5 times as strong per unit than the Vortex. =====>>>> Completely deceptive statement to trick the mentally disabled into believing that an overpowered weapon can be compensated by the other faction.
Cause almost all statistic stink out of the bum and do not reflect actual ingame value, usability and performance which is largely based on the weapon mechanics. The WireGuide of the NC Raven is broken overpowred - you hardly miss shots, you can not evade the bullets and you can correct your bad aim over large distances while still having the highest dmg per magazin of all other facitons equivalents. Needs to be downtuned or the other faction weapons need to upped to the same ACTUAL ingame performance level against all units.
Weird I though vortexes were good, I must be overcompensating by being skilled at the weapon. I killed 3 tanks recently with it (lightings) longer range too. What seems to kill people is the long range damage that is instance with a charged up. Its got no drop and a fast projectile so its definatly easyer to hit long range, my experience with fractures (and I have allot year or so ago) is that it takes allot of skill to hit long range, the main bonus of fracutes is you can hold down mouse button to spam like crazy. Ravens in some ways are not olny unbalanced compared to other anti armor weapons but to the other NC weapon, I looked just to check it out, that one shot cannon thing. If you think about it, all the other av weapons that are long range are medicure with splash damage, with the NC they got the long range gun that's also got the best splash and a big shot gun with LESS area damage. One step to keep the role would be nerf down area damage on the rocket gun closer to the level of fractures, then give the other NC gun a powerful area of effect (say 200). Over all it makes sense to have a actual choice between guns, so far even for close range against infantry I would pick the rocket gun instead of the short ranged cannon. if I was a NC max user, the vanu and the TR actualy have a choice of what gun to use, for exream ranges I use the vortex, for medium and anytime assaulting or could face infantry use the commet. the TR are similar where the grenade launcher is well a grenade launcher, and the fracture is long range rocket.
Tried out ravens, and they are awesome, the whole you can't move and shoot is a falicy you can, its harder but you can keep looking at the target while strafing. And in pitched battles with swarms of hostiles your going to be typically just be firing into a mob of enemy's anyway where its just trying to hit any. Sure your less accurate but who cares, staying alive or moving into better postion. The gun is also murder for hostile maxes, and equaly effective against infantry during fighting rarely used it against tanks (tr didn't or couldn't spawn much). The gun does shine too much and all the other weapons for NC maxes are pretty mediocure in comparison. correction to my previous post the falcon does have a little more splash damage compared with the raven, 90 falcon 75 raven. But still if you think about it, its close to the same for a gun that has considerably more shots and range. And the point that still stands that the gun that's specialized for closer range av has unremarkable splash compared with TR and vanu equivelents that are spash masters.
And of course, no one gives a crap about the Fractures...with the lowest damage (Vortex max charge), bullet drop, worst accuracy, and the longest reload, why do I only see things like "Buff Vortex", "Buff NC", "Buff Orion" (Actually saw that once), "Buff GODSAW", "Buff Beamer" (At least that's logical), and crap like that, and yet nobody wants to buff the Fracture?
You clearly don't know how to use them. My fully armoured sundi gets taken out behind buildings by some really good players. The dps is so high I can barely keep up with a full repair gun.
I think they should get the striker back to a useful point before the Fracture. Until then just use the Fracture as AI, that's what it's good for.
I ******* love the Vortex. I'd probably love the Raven too if I wasn't so busy messing around with the Phoenix missile and my AV mana turret. TR fractures are...lame. I wouldn't mind buffing those in some way.
Yes ravens are strong fix it by doubling reload time and maybe reduce the reaction speed of the missle (plz do this for the mana av turrent as well) Buffing vortexes doens make sense they are already strong. Buffing fractures mkay i can agree just make it so its synergetic with lockdown make it have a insane muzzle and reload while deployed make it lack burst damage and a really good sustained damage. But never make it do more damage then pounders
