Rant - infiltrator is trash

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by Vaphell, Sep 18, 2014.

  1. Vaphell

    because you are not a smart man? ;) And if you are cloaked they can't technically *hide* behind you, i'd rather hide behind a MAX or a HA, thank you very much :p
  2. Rikkit

    sry op, sound's like you have to learn a lot of things.
    #1 you're not invisible, (not even close) you are just harder to see
    #2 you have to learn how to break the line of sight with the ennemy as often as possible
    #3 you have to learn when you can shoot, and when you have to run. Both can save your life, or bring you a step closer to your death.
    #4 you have to learn, that it's sometimes better to pull an other class, or to leave the battelfield.

    once you learned all that, you can wrek people with all classes, but you will see, that each class can do something, that others can't.
    And there are things, that everybody can do, but your class...

    For example, everybody can damage a sunderer, but noone can hide as easy as the infiltrator near the engenner repairing the sunderer and kill him when he is needed the most.
  3. breeje

    vaphell, no i clean out the base and then the other classes come for free xp
    and for the hiding part = sarcasm =
    and yes i know u hide behind a max it's properly the only place where we can find u on the battlefield
  4. K2k4

    I want to be proud and mean in my response but I find myself agreeing with the majority of this post. Meat grinders are too abundant lately it seems and life seems cheap and short for infiltrating. Then again it can still be fun despite itself. You almost need to choose your battles based on where you will be able to operate instead of where it's most lucrative target wise.

    Performance may be your issue or maybe it's the game design getting in the way of the class design but I think I get your point.
  5. MisterSlim

    I can respect a different playstyle and opinion. I can see quite easily why someone would dislike playing as a cloaker, or even see them as useless. However, I will offer a bit of input here:
    • When a cluster of Engis or Heavies begins to notice that their teammates are dropping like flies, they will start hunting. This hunt can distract half a squad for minutes on end, buying valuable time for your team.
    • When leapfrogging a base, we can stop an armor column better than any other class, simply by making sure it never forms in the first place.
    • We can spawn vehicles and leave them outside spawn rooms, creating a temporary illusion of a full scale zerg.
    • We can inject spawn beacons more easily than other classes.
    • We can use our teammates as bait, for the betterment of the battle as a whole.
    Good cloakers are downright nasty. Don't get me wrong, medics and engis have supporting usefulness that can't be replaced, but the sheer size of the arsenal that a creative cloaker has makes him a force to be reckoned with. True that we pale when it comes to handling armor up close and personal, but the psychological torment we can issue to said armor opens up doors that a heavy just can't open alone. Once we get ourselves injected into an area, it becomes a tramping ground for mayhem. In my opinion, we have the blankest slate of any class in terms of creativity. Will we be able to handle an I-win Heavy with a LMG face to face? No. But that just isn't what the class is designed for. We can do things that no one else can, it's just that those things (which are no less useful than other roles) aren't usually meant to blast people in the face. This is just my two-cents on the matter.
    • Up x 2
  6. ISKNausicaa

    I can understand Vaphells frustration, hacking is indeed rather lacklustre at this point in time, and we have been plagued with cloaking bugs and as of recent increased visibility when cloaked.

    Hacking hasnt been filled out yet, if they had solid hackable objectives in a base and hackable vehicles, suddenly cloakers, especially stalkers would have a tangable use in a base.

    In PS1 we actually termed infils based on what they did, the guys who ran around amping/killing folk were called 'cloakers', whereas infiltrators were the guys who might die half a dozen times to get into a packed base, but who at the right moment would drop a teleport pad or drop a gen, cracking that previously impenetrable farm wide open, in terms of usefullness nothing came close.

    Later one they introduced skills that allowed infils to infect a base with viruses, turning automated turrets on friendly vehicles, giving the enemies interlink to your faction, turning painfields against the enemy and so on.

    Then we have the Phantasm, a cloaked vehicle

    What i would do;
    1. Fix the cloaking issues (already on the books)
    2. Give infils a way to bypass shields, (suit slot?)
    3. Give us hackable objectives and vehicles, allow us to drop viruses on bases like we did at the end of PS1.
    4. Give the Valkyrie a wraith/cloak module in return for having no weapons, basically giving the functionaility of the phantasm from PS1

    Right now we need more things to help define our class more ( to be honest this is the same with light assault).
  7. OldMaster80

    The Infiltrator is a great class imho but suffers an identity crysis. As assault soldier it is clearly inferior to others and has no AV weapons. It's just good for lone wolves but when the battle becomes really big chances to flank and remain unseen dramatically drop.
    As sniper the suppressive effect on infantry is neglectable as bullet tracers deathcam and minimap give away your location too easily.

    The Stalker is the real only infiltrator but sadly it has no targets to damage inside enemy bases. It would be far nicer if not every class were able to overcharge generators, for instance.
  8. Tyrant103

    From my experience, they just respawn.

    I've killed the same people up to 5 times in a row.
    • Up x 1
  9. Mustarde

    Personally I find infiltrator to be the most versatile class. We have long, mid and short range weapons, and a variety of tools and builds that allow you to participate in any battle at any base. The class is more about positioning and aim. If you are killing dozens of enemies who appear borderline afk and completely unaware of your presence, then you are doing your job correctly.

    People are always commenting in my videos "I wish people were that bad on my server" or "why does everyone look like they are standing around???".

    The class is 70% conceptual and only 30% execution. Look for choke points, look for flanking opportunities, avoid areas of vehicle spam and focus on ranges that are appropriate for your current loadout. Then you can cut down 30 people in a row and watch your allies break the stalemate and get on the point.

    I stopped trying to argue about infiltrators being useful or not a long time ago. I know when I'm being useful or not, and I don't really care what anyone else thinks.
    • Up x 1
  10. Jawarisin

    first post

    and now, after both elusive and mustarde posted on the forum elusive tottaly ignored this post and:
    I'm a future-mind-reader, both predictions landed right on! /victory-dance
  11. Vaphell

    that's a strange definition of versatile. Infil is completely impotent against 2 key obstacles - omnipresent MAXes and omnipresent mech. So you can kill only infantry with X, Y and Z, where is the versatility?
    And it's not like close and mid range weapons are anything to write home about, every class has them and their versions have in general more punch, ease of use and reliability, eg assault rifles are a truly aggravating ****.

    Also if these people don't have a single nuthugging infil to provide the maphack, don't look at the minimap and don't hear the constant cloak on/off they kind of deserve that. But why would a class be built around the general incompetence of the opponent, because that's what it is?

    You need to bump execution % much much higher. Good ideas are a dime a dozen.
    And then, if you don't have an intel branded skill bonus, you need to add few more %. Also you seem to underestimate the impact of skillful sidearm/knife play to compensate for short mags or BASR in cqc. Everybody can spray till the gun runs dry but not every class depends on quick wits to such an extent. Maybe after 100k kills or so these things feel completely effortless but they dont look so from where i stand.

    on the performance/framerate side of things I literally learned not to trust true cqc, especially smgs (which is a pain because i have only 1.5smg+exceptional left to aurax). Big relative angular velocity of the target plus even a minor fps hitch = huge miss = dead me. I blow my load on air, the would be target wakes up and that's the end of the story right there. To a lesser extent i had the same problem with 24 bullets of scout rifle, but greater airgap allowed for emergency evacuation most of the time.
    Also outside of cheeky sniping i don't see much of an established concept. Infil should approach from the flank instead of being in yo face but other than that he has to improvise on the spot.

    why dont you give yourself a medal. Mustarde who is a frequent theorycrafting poster responds to a theorycrafting rant, but elusive mostly limiting himself to posting his yet another sas-r headshot streak doesn't. There is no way anybody but you could possibly see that coming.
  12. Jawarisin

    Sure, I shall then give myself the Pure-Awesomeness of the year Medal
  13. _itg

    Infiltrators are great at playing a supporting role to an AV campaign. I've brought down countless MAXes and even sunderers by knifing their engis. They're also pretty good at hunting down wounded MAXes, since they can either cloak and follow or snipe them as they run to cover.

    On the point of versatility, I think it's telling that in any given thread you have to specify what kind of infiltrator you're talking about. Snipers, SMG infiltrators, stalkers, and scout rifle users (can we call them scouts? No one says that, but it's so easy...) all have fundamentally different playstyles. Even though other classes have a variety of weapons to choose from, you're never a "shotgun medic" or a "warden engi."
  14. Takara

    The entire post smells of frustration and anger....which means most of your points are over inflated and likely incorrect.

    I play infiltrator a lot. Sometimes I get frustrated. But most of the time I have fun....I feel like the cloaking devices is kind of worthless. It only helps you at mid range. They need to make it a little more of a camo and harder to see when moving. Just a little. OR give it the cloak like in PS 1 were if you crouch walk it is more effective.

    Either way If you are so angry...go play with a infiltrator on a wrath ATV...I rack up so many kills.
  15. BillHaverchuck

    Infiltrator is fun. I rarely play inf with my outfit but I have found that recon + scout rifle is OK
  16. m44v

    I will agree with Vaphell on this, you can't call it versatile when it doesn't have any tools for deal with maxes or vehicles, you can only hope to find an undestroyed turret pointing the right way or suck your thumb against them. On top of that the other classes also have their own close, medium and long range weapons, they might not have sniper rifles but sniping doesn't get bases captured anyway.

    Killing infantry alone can't justify the existence of the infiltrator class, any other class can do the same thing. The unique things that the infiltrator brings are sensors, hacking and cloaking, the first being the only important task, but depends of the size of the battle, in meatgrinders nobody pays attention to the map full of dots, so sensors there are just for boost your XP gain a little. In medium battles spamming darts is such a powerful tool that the squad without an infiltrator can't win, so I can't say that infils are trash, but their usefulness being so situational doesn't make them great either.
    • Up x 1
  17. Jawarisin

    A good sniper in the right spot can do a lot, even in a 96 vs 96 fight. You can shut down the enemy from advancing completely on some parts of the terrain. And I haven't yet found any other weapon/class that clan kill 5 enemies as fast as I can with a SAS-R anywhere in between 10-200 meters
  18. ezaroo

    Fresh from our debate in another topic I'm here to agree with jawarisin. If you are a well placed sniper (obviously this is base dependant) you can actually break a 96+ zerg... If you terminal camp at a base they just caped, you break their ability to pull vehicles - no spawn points = no attack. No tanks = no farming. Plenty of people pulling vehicles will be squad or platoon leaders = up to 48 people who are disorganised for a brief time. Even better if you really annoy a platoon leader by farming them and they bring 40 people to find you, that is just funny I'm sure most of us snipers have caused these reactions from people. Normally at least 5-10 people well come hunting if you vehicle terminal camp. That pulls them out of the fight they should actually be in.

    If you can snipe choke points or even better the safe spots near choke points from behind, you can stop a zerg getting in a base, kill their medics and they can't rev their players so yours can hold them off, if you kill their engies they can't repair their maxes and an unsupported max is dead...

    I'd personally say it is 30/70 for info overall but for sniper it is more 80/20 or 90/10 firing the shots if you are in the right place is simple... Point and click on most targets (moving targets taking skill to hit but can be learned with practice). The positioning, finding them, getting in them, knowing where a zerg will go, knowing how long it takes to get to them and keeping yourself hidden while there, that is what sniping is about.

    I feel we should stop feeding this creature now?
  19. Skeith

    vaphell has been playng since launch and i can tell that is a pretty good player, the biggest problem with our community is that most of the infiltrators cant pull their head out of their **** and admit the dozilions of problems that plague the class

    besides killing and the recon aspect i'ts a completely pointless class
    • Up x 1
  20. ezaroo


    Let me explain

    Medic - besides the killing and healing/reving it's a completely pointless class.
    Light assualt - besides the flying and the killing it's a completely pointless class.
    Engineer - besides the killing, repairing and ammo it's a completely pointless class.
    Heavy assualt - besides the killing and rockets it's a completely pointless class.
    Max - besides the killing it's a completely pointless class.

    Notice anything? Yeah...

    Infi has - Cloak... Recon tools (deployable and gun) and killing so that is on par engie? 3 vs 3...

    Ohh but I can hear you already "but but repairing, ammo, healing/reving are more useful!!!" Of course because knowing the location of the enemy is actually a disadvantage... Ohh wait no it isn't.

    Just because the infi doesn't win a 1 vs 1 face to face engagement with a heavy does not make it pointless...

    No other class can down 55+ people without taking a single return shot... Or run through groups of enemies and cause utter chaos to the same extent.

    Yeah the class has "problems" (read disadvantages) but most of the community can see that if infis could 1 vs 1 face to face with a heavy and win it would be full blown game breaking... Or if we could carry real AV weapons? End of game...

    These mild disadvantages are needed to stop it turning into what I imagine a predator civil war would look like... The game would be made up of cloaked infis and ESFs... That's not a game I want to play.

    End of story.

    I'm done.

    Sorry that was a bit sarcastic but your post was just that bad.

    Yes we have some glitches with cloak but they are being fixed (check pts).
    • Up x 2