Rangers now on MBTs

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by SoljVS, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. pnkdth

    Similarly, a hornet ESF will probably make your standard MBT crew panic rather than them spinning around and shooting the ESF down with its main cannon. Most tankers know if your overreach you are usually going to be the subject of every AV weapon out there as you stand out like a sore thumb.

    I mean, some ESF pilots seem to think they should be able to casually fly over 48+ people and get away with it. In a similar situation a ground vehicle would have been blown to bits within seconds... Well, except the liberator of the ground AKA "the battle bus."
  2. zaspacer

    The Top VS on the main Leaderboard (http://www.planetside-universe.com/leaderboard.php ; https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/leaderboards) also still uses lots of LPPA to farm Infantry. So ESF still can still be an anti infantry god mode as you said.

    Nerf to Thermal, probably just stretched out the skill curve on A2G. And I think both you guys are just significantly higher up than me on that skill curve, where you can reliably access that kind of gameplay. Or maybe LPPA is just used until it gets wrecked/countered, and then switch to Infantry.

    MBT don't have the fast exit and go-somewhere-options that Air has. ESFs are much more likely to get deterred and leave altogether. If Tankers had some sort of panic-button teleport to next base, then we'd see more Tankers being disrupted.

    Outside of small enemy pop engagements, the most I can often do is get the Tankers to clear away from a particular facing of an ally base. And I do that as an Infantry with extreme range AV and positioning, not as an ESF. In small enemy pop (or other safe) engagements, ESF (properly Certed) can wreck house on an unsupported and exposed MBT.

    An ESF can sometimes fly over a 48+ enemy position and get away with it. It all depends on things like:
    1) how much the enemy has AA ready
    2) how much of the enemy is looking up or waiting to engage Air (even them being engaged will make them more ready to do AA than say if nothings happening and they're lounging around)
    3) how brief a pass the ESF makes
    4) if the ESF has an entry route that breaks line-of-sight
    5) if the ESF has an exit route that can break line-of-sight
    6) if there is any enemy Air in the area that can complicate things
    7) if any other ally ESFs are already around stiring up the hornet's nest
    8) etc.

    I can appreciate it looks like casual flight, and for some rookies it might be. But for experienced ESFs, they can often setup a flyby or quick strike in certain places with fair success.
  3. pnkdth

    That's what I meant. ESFs are able to evade whereas a MBT will become extremely vulnerable(and probably get destroyed). You might not personally blow the tank up but that's how G2A has been playing since forever(well, bar the insanity of pre-pre-pre-nerf Striker/Anni/etc). You are in a one player vehicle, after all. Much like the Skyguard / dual arm burster MAX this does not guarantee a kill.

    1-8+ ; Yes, been playing since 2012 but thanks for the random lecture. The point I'm making is that if a MBT drives into a hot mess like that there won't be a tank there anymore. Even though a HA can RL an ESF out of the sky it is far far far easier to hit a tank rolling into a base. Then there is C4, Tank mines, Rocklets, base turrets(which is REALLY effective versus armor), etc, etc, etc.

    So to iterate, and make my point clear, a tank who overreach(and it doesn't have to be by far) might have more HP than an ESF but since the sheer amount of things on the ground/air which can blow it up I gotta say it feels quite flimsy and weak. That's all.
  4. zaspacer


    Liewec123, Corezer, and Pelojian had all said ESFs should be happy just limited to a role of area detering Ground Vehicles now Post Thermal-nerf. But I pointed out that ESFs are not effective at Ground Vehicles area deterrence.

    Pre-Thermal-nerf, it was fairly easy for an ESF (with Rocket Pods or Hornet) to personally blow-up an unprotected MBT (especially a Prowler, with Mag second, and Van as the more dangerous/resistant). MBTs and Infantry were probably the 2 easiest targets for ESFs.

    Now, doing A2G has become much more complicated for many ESF pilots.

    Maybe once ESF player get more familiar with the change, and figure out alternate tactics, they will again be able to perform A2G well. But it may also be that DBG will nerf ESFs if they are again able to perform A2G well.

    On a personal level, the uncertainty of the ESF role combined with (1) loss of Oracle (to help firgure out the new role), (2) my ongoing 4-503 login problems, (3) and an already boring/on-rails ground game have resulted in my not really playing PS2 lately. Maybe I will play more in the future when the big changes are "done", the dust has settled, the 4-503 is resolved, and the community has sorted out the new meta... and if that meta is fun.

    I was just trying to cover the flight behavior of an experienced A2G ESF pilot. In case you or others had mistaken that behavior for casually flying over 48+ people.

    I definitely agree that an ESF has a much better ability to:
    1) survive
    2) sustain operations in open space

    I just think that average ESFs struggles to meaningfully get involved in medium-large (or small with good enemy AA) Ground battles now.
  5. pnkdth

    Fair enough. The question is how much influence should one have in a single player vehicle. For instance, lightnings does not command much presence either and tend to be very specialized in terms of how they're used based on loud out.

    Perhaps, with the thermals, ESF(mainly against infantry) got used to being a bit too influential on the battlefield. Which in return has led to a lot of animosity towards ESF pilots.

    A solution to the problem for ESFs could be a clearer threat indicator. If getting locked on, get an approximation of where direction from the mini-map(like the death cam does) and perhaps something similar for flak/small arms/other damage but less precise since otherwise AA MAX units and Skyguards would just get eaten up. That said, this doesn't really help with the AV role but it can help them make faster decisions of where to attack/take cover/etc which in turn enable ESF pilots to more confidently engage in combat longer.

    Overall though, I dunno, this ground/air balance have been going on since beta and it seems insanely difficult to balance given the variable numbers that makes up an open world game.
  6. zaspacer

    I agree. The question of how much influence should one have in a single player vehicle is a huge one. And it continues to be huge.

    And it's not just 1-man vehicles, but any vehicle that is being manned/supported by 1 player alone.

    And related issues are how much influence a multi-crew vehicle should have. How much influence multiple vehicles should have. And how much influence Infantry should have (solo or in casual groups or in hardcore groups).

    DBG should have a spreadsheet with these headers on it. They should be tracking data and findings, ideas and visions, experience and feedback. I highly doubt they are.

    Definitely agreed. A2G has been a beating for most Infantry for a long time. Given the age of the game, that beating continued in the game either because of Designer choice, ignorance, or incompetence.

    These recent changes by DBG Design seem to reflect a DBG choice in removing that A2G beating. However, it also might highlight an incompetence regarding their ability to make a combined arms role for Air. I suppose we'll know more and see better when the changes are done and the dust settles.

    That could work. I suppose it depends on (1) how it's implemented, and (2) what the intended combined arms role of Air (and Air counters) is to be.

    While I agree it was warped, at least we had a meta that had been in place for a while and that most players could wrap their heads around. Now we are looking at what seems to be a massive game overhaul, and new meta. That's very risky for a game to pull off. It was very bad for SWG.

    I generally do very well at delving into and helping balance large systems. But I know that many struggle with this. I tend to have an ego-less, practical focus to it.

    When I worked at Sigil, many peers and heads of Design I tried to work with (1) consistently failed to comprehend large systems, and (2) were hostile and rejecting and incomprehensive of the input of others (peers, underlings, or player feedback). Solving many design problems at Sigil became a political issue, with whole camps favoring failure over compromising their agendas or egos.
  7. Meserion

    If this game was closer to reality (which it isn't #FlyingPhysicsBeBroken), then ESFs Hornets would 1-shot MBTs as they act as anti-armor weapons akin to a bunker buster. Alas, this will not be....
  8. Hajakizol

    And man portable missile one shot planes.. and some tanks. And tanks would have ridiculous muzzle velocity and murder all targets in their los without slowing down because of advanced fire control systems. Real world fighting is not fun its terribly imbalanced lol.
    • Up x 2
  9. ColonelChingles

    I disagree. As models like ARMA show, real world fighting is quite fun (and more popular than what PS2 has, in fact).

    Real world fighting is also inherently balanced. In real world fighting, both infantry and vehicles are relevant to battle... no modern country would ever try to fight without either. But in PS2 you can pretty much win any fight with just infantry and infantry transports. Air and armour has no critical role in PS2, which means that they are not balanced.
  10. pnkdth

    Don't really see it working well on the scale of PS2. Every battle would be a one shot camp fest at max render distance.
  11. Dethonlegs

    Ground vehicles used to have more of a role before direct spawning into aircraft was a thing. Troop movement from one base to the next was mostly via sundies. The best way to stop a sundy is with a tank.
  12. BrbImAFK

    I agree. I would like to see more reason for doing air/vehicle things. Even as an infantry player, I'd like to see more air vs air and vehicle vs vehicle and air vs vehicle vs air going on around me.

    Or a liberator. Just sayin'..... :p
    • Up x 1
  13. Tar

    Seriously? "world of G2A" is you can hide in a fckin building, or sunderer. Also your rocket launchers are free, and so are your pathetic respawnable lifes.

    Tanks can take more hits, air can run faster, infantry can hide and respawn. THAT'S IT. Get it through your head.
  14. Tar

    only idiots design a game to reverse past imbalances
  15. Vesorak

    Am I missing something? Did the Ranger get a buff beyond that slight angle of fire increase? I searched the patch notes and didn't find anything.
  16. HisokaTheRed

    50% damage buff from patches ago ,50->75damage, plus the base +60% resistance bonus for ESF. People are slow, so they only catching on like a few months after the buff. So every John and Richard can pull a ranger on a sunday/ant and basically shut down the airspace for everyone but the experienced lib crew. Or god forbid, put two ranger on a sunday and let no one fly in the fights. Also hilarious that I'm more annoyed by a ranger ant then I am of two skyguards.
  17. Insignus

    I have spent a great deal of time, as Valkyrie, studying and mastering the evasion and compensation for anti-air. I also sky-guard quite a bit.

    The Ranger damage buff would have been better off as 33% to start off. The straight jump to 50% is overmuch. A 2 ranger sundy can nuke down ESFs and Valks, in some cases before they can react.

    The chief failure of G2A is not damage. It is one of tactics.

    The reason you don't kill air targets is because you shoot at everything you see as soon as you see it.

    The secret to skiggirding is to not do that.

    Figure out what they want.

    Anticipate where they want it from.

    Be there.

    Let them get close, let them start their run. Let them commit to their target.

    Then wail on them after they pass the point of no return.

    Fun Fact; You will never fully master AA if you never fly. The best people at anti-aircraft are pilots themselves.
  18. TrolKabu

    And when you can't relocate, you're useless :D