Quote the Raven...

Discussion in 'MAX' started by ohknoh, Jul 6, 2014.

  1. ohknoh

    wth..... I knew that the ravens were good, but I honestly never realized they were laser guided.

    That leads me to ask two questions:
    1: How do you guys manage to miss so much with a laser guided spammable missile, and
    2: How the heck can you guys claim that the VS are the kings of long range anti-tank, when you can spam 5 hard hitting laser guided missiles? Yeah the comet has no bullet drop, so do your ravens.

    1.5 second short and long reload? Give me a break.

    So let's see:
    NC max is best in cqc whe dual wielding shotguns, max units die in less than 3 seconds, non max units die instantly.
    NC max is very good at medium range, especially if equipped wih medium range shotguns, and/or slug ammo.
    NC max is excellent at long range with laser guided spam missiles.
    NC max also gets a super survival shield, that makes them absolute beasts at room rushes.

    NC MAX>>TR>VS.
  2. The Enigma

    1.Like you said some people don't know they are laser guided.
    2.Not sure why, but probally because the high speed of the lancer projectiles and maybe because of the saron
  3. Chewy102

    1- You must keep a line of sight, have decent tracking, and know how to lead with the Ravens slowish turn speed.

    Fail any of those and you will miss. Even recoil is more than enough to raise your crosshairs enough to have the rockets fly over a target at range. Screen shake as well can mess with guiding a rocket and with needing to keep a perfect LOS you are going to take return fire making you choose to stay out for more damage or fall back and have every rocket in the air miss.

    2- Vortexes can send all of their damage with no need to be exposed for anything but firing. And with that very fast travel time you don't even have to worry all that much about leading making fast pop up shots rather easy with very little risk of return fire. Can even use the charging time to relocate so there's less risk of return fire.

    Plus like Enigma said, you have more low risk fast travel long range options such as Lancer and Saron to use.

    I'll agree that the Ravens are powerful AV weapons. But no way are they as good as you make them sound to be. They have a nice amount of downsides to them that make using Ravens a risk to the MAX. As for the other parts, I don't want to get into that debate again. Shotguns are a niche weapon for a reason and Id gladly trade them for the usability of HMGs.
    • Up x 2
  4. BITES

    Ravens are by far the most fun weapon of any MAX loadout. I honestly spend more time mucking around shooting people behind things than directly ... and still maintain 30% accuracy :p

    Line of sight is completely optional......

    This shot was done after seeing the Tank on Radar ... estimating location and then firing ravens accordingly ... as you mention .. flight guidance is key ... (I mentally just think of a kite in the wind and my guns are the string holder).


    Streaming Nightly ;)
  5. Frosty The Pyro

    comets do a bit more dps.

    As for how you miss with ravens, recoil is a decent bit of it, at shorter ranges it doesnt mater, but at longer ones if you are shooting your crosshair is bouncing (and therefor you laser guidance is jiggleing alot), The short reload has more to do with the fire rate I suspect, the slow fire rate means it still has a relitively long fire cycle. The vortex has a similarly short reload (2 long, 1.5 short), and the comet is at 1.75 long and short.
  6. Dhabu

    Despite the obvious trollish post, I will add that Ravens frequently launch at a random angle to the reticule, and only with time to they actually return to it. This makes them unreliable to use between 5m and about 30m. (Greater than 30m, they track properly back to the reticule, and under 5m, it doesn't matter.)

    Plus camera shake, recoil, the target moving/getting cover (the ravens will follow the reticule, but not instantly, allowing them to be dodged), and their projectile speed, all contribute.

    I agree that they're excellent, and I have no complaints as such. But you asked why we don't all land 100% with them, and that's why.

    /WTB VS AI weapons
  7. ImmortalPancake

    I will agree that the ravens are good but they definitely have a few down sides. For one, they are guided which means that you have to guide them incase you didnt know. You cant stay behind cover and pop out to fire them off and then duck back into cover, you have to keep them on the right course. Second off is the fact that with every shot you get a bit of recoil and like someone pointed out this can cause you to guide the rocket over the intended target, especially with a clip of 5 of them. Lastly it takes a decent amount of practice to use them effectively, with the Falcons all you have to do is figure out the drop and then you have an accurate spamming machine and thats why many people prefer the Falcons over the Ravens. I guess what im trying to say is that in the hands of someone who has had a lot of practice and knows how to use them they can be deadly especially when you have several of these people gunning for the same target. The Ravens certainly have their advantages but they also have their flaws and like any weapon you need to know how to use them properly.

    Also a little tip for anyone thinking about getting the Ravens, maxed out Flak armor is a must because of the exposure you get when guiding them to your target.
  8. TriumphantJelly

    I thought this thread would be you quoting the Raven: It would sound something like this...

    ScreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeBOOCH! ScreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeBOOCH! ScreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeBOOCH! ScreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeBOOCH!


    Don't know why I laughed at my own joke.
    • Up x 1
  9. Xocolatl

    That's the reason I hate it so much. Otherwise, I love that weapon.
  10. zombielores

    2 words, Lancer/Vortex these two are the bane of every vehicle users existence due to the fact that it doesn't take that much to instagib a full blockade sundie or take down a gal quickly and they have insane range, no drop, and you can't fight back at them because they won't render, basically it's the portable version of the MANA AV turret on your max or heavy and it shares some of the complaints that people complained about the MANA AV turret.
    What I really don't get is why in the world did the VS not abuse the f out of it yet and gotten it merged into the ground, to quote Higby "VS players are funny, they don't use stuff unless it's obviously OP" but I guess in this case, it's not obvious enough.
  11. Xocolatl

    They're pretty horrid when you aren't sniping though, since you have to be exposed to fire them due to the charging (I tried it once and ducked back to avoid enemy fire, only to have my own gun fired and died from the splash damage..). Granted you can charge first, but it can still have its disadvantages (like popping out to find that the enemy has already retreated, etc).
  12. Kalivix

    1. Because it means standing out in the open slowly guiding them in (plus I think they can be shot down), have you ever tried standing in the open as a MAX with lots of tanks in front of you? oddly enough you tend to die very quickly thus why nobody uses these awful guns.

    2. Because ravens do almost no damage and you need to sit in the open to hit so you mostly die before they hit, its all about falcons as the NC ravens are for VS kids who THINK they are good but have no idea how bad they really are.

    As for lets see.

    NC MAX is best under 10m... wow if only 90% of the game didn't occur under 10m we would be happy! sadly that means in 90% of fights we are at a huge disadvantage. If you want our shotguns have then, VS/TR MAXs instakill infantry up close anyway but you can also shoot people from long range as well.

    This is just a lie, we are good at 10m and under medium range is passable with mattocks but even then its hardly useful as they become worthless at short range and still need to put up with the very RnG nature of slugs. Please don't lie to try and prove points.

    Again a huge lie for reasons I've explained, lets pretend that it doesn't take about 6-8 rockets to kill 1 person with the raven, even THEN NC would be awful at long range as you would need to stand in the open and slowly guide it in on a target that can shoot them out of the sky.

    Wow we get a shield that slows us a LOT and doesn't work on explosives, you get a fantastic skill for increased speed and damage! The shield is useful in 1 situation and 1 only, very cramped corridors.. even then I wouldn't really use them as its always depressing to watch people place C4 at your feet and know full well you can't put the shield away and run fast enough... it takes to long all you can do is die.

    So... ye basically wrong with a dash of wrong and a huge lump of wrong thrown into the wrong stew, the only correct thing you said is that ravens are laser guided and shotguns are good in close range.
  13. cruczi

    Wow, never thought I'd hear someone say Ravens are bad. Obviously they're not meant to be used in direct close range confrontation with tanks. The fact that they're laser guided allows you to hit practically every shot as long as you see the enemy vehicle. It's the ultimate denial tool against advancing tank columns. The function is similar to MANA turrets which are still perfectly serviceable even after the nerf, but you can actually take a hit before dying and you can try to dodge incoming shells, and you're not vulnerable to snipers.

    I just can't understand why you'd say they're bad. It sounds like you're just using them in the wrong situations.
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  14. Kalivix

    Ok some situations might be good for them but in general the falcons will server you far better as the ravens can be shot down and do so little damage you NEED to hit every shot and have other MAXs helping before they do anything useful
  15. Spadar

    Honestly I can't think of a situation where I've been using Ravens and thought to myself "I really wish I had the Falcons right now!" Raven DPS is more then enough to take out Sunderers and force MBTs to back off or die, are effective out to their maximum range (400m), and have better AI potential than Falcons.
  16. TheRealBlackhawk

    I concur.
  17. starlinvf

    The Ravens have the same inherent weakness as the Phoenixes.... low velocity, and bad turn rate makes hitting moving targets harder then it should be for a laser guided weapon. Thats the main reason new users tend to miss, since they assume it'll be able to chase the target like the Mana Turret can. One thing that most people forget to take into account is flight time.... and the Ravens are sloowwww.

    In order to hit a fast moving target running perpendicular, you have to second guess the lead and hope they don't change direction too fast. Hitting a Harasser at 150m out, running perpendicular, you need about 15m lead to get proper chasing. Alternatively you can plot an intercept, but the slow speed of the missiles makes it really unreliable to do it this way. Sitting targets are easy though.