pump shotgun seems oddly weak

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Djan, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. Gundem

    can't handle the spandex *******

    As I said earlier, I remember when they could OHK from like 15 meters away. Obviously too good then. But currently they aren't strong enough, if they could simply reliably OHK inside 7 meters(5 meters for 2nd gen with emphasis on hipfire accuracy) I think they'd be perfect.
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  2. Reclaimer77

    One Hit Kill infantry weapons shouldn't be a thing. Rocket primary was/is bad enough. The promise that you can instagib people with PA's should have never been made.
  3. Mustarde

    Haha thanks, well there are three things I do when a PA shotgun is in my hands:

    • Play very aggressively. Including charging into a room, and continuing to charge straight at someone until I'm close enough to OHK them instead of trying to 2HK from 10m away.
    • Stutter step when shooting
    • Force CQC situations and minimize ranged combat
    As for the rocket launcher you see, I was using the decimator in that video. I figure, the biggest obstacle I run into while playing super aggressive are max suits. And a shotgun can do a lot of damage to one, but you won't get very far without putting a rocket in them first. Do that and you can survive some of your max encounters.
    This is a nearly 2 year old video featuring the pump action shotgun I made, but illustrates the same principles. Of note, they had already been nerfed twice by then.
  4. Gundem

    Good video, I think it really emphasis how PA's are good ambush weapons. Trying to 1v1 someone with a PA head on is a bad idea. Unless the base is a tower, which artificially congests combat into shotgun range, most of the time you will get out-ranged or out-dodged.

    Look at 1:57, that engineer survives a shot at near point blank because he was moving and your aim was slightly off center. Only problem is that in a 1v1 with someone who can actually aim, they will use that time to mow you down. At least since you can dodge around a lot with a shotgun you might stand a chance if they have an ADS weapon, but if they have a SMG or hipfire gun then GG no RE.

    2:30 also shows again how they are good against players with poor situational awareness, you scampered around that scattmax and it didn't even flinch. While he might have been AFK, the rest of those players had no excuse, like that engi on that turret that saw you enter and kill half his teammates.

    Now don't get me wrong, I don't think they are terrible weapons. I prefer the 2nd gen PA for reasons stated above, and I still think they are poor weapons overall but inside the small niche they perform well in I think they are a blast to use. I'd just like to see them made a little less niche, but then comes the problem of trying to balance power vs ease of use, I'd hate to have them like they were when they first came out. While I think a revamp of normal shotguns would be feasible, PA shotguns are balanced around being OHK, which puts the, in a difficult position.

    I think it'd be interesting if we reduced the hipfire accuracy of PA shotguns, but then increased the OHK range/reliability. Require ADS(Which makes mechanical aim more difficult), but improve the reward. Doesn't sound like too bad of a deal for either side to me, so long as the OHK range wasn't made drastically further, maybe 8m for the 1st gen and 5m for the 2nd gen. It's not like SMG's are our hipfire weapons already.

    Holy **** I use a lot of commas.
  5. LoveDispenser

    Just use default free shotgun with slug ammo. 2 shots at 9m, 3 shots at 10m+, good for LA to snipe with 4x scope.
  6. bLind db

    Just camp in a max suit. But not NC, because scattermax and hacksaw max are also ridiculously underpowered.
  7. Goretzu


    No one can.
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  8. omegaskorpion

    Im going to have to compare BF4 shotguns to PS2 shotguns becacause both games are about big open versatile battles.

    So in PS2 the shotguns deal max damage up to 8m and damage drop ends at 18m (90% of the shotguns have this range)

    Now 18m is not even medium range. That is still a range where all weapons deal high damage, exepth shotguns that deal over half less damage (not to mention the pellet spread).

    Now in BF4 the shotguns have 24m max damage range and 32m min damage range. Which can result OHK up to 28m.
    Now to put this on perspective in PS2, you could one shot enemies in almost every indoors area in the game (most indoors areas are 10m-60m long)

    Now how is this balanced in BF4?, well most of the guns have quite fast TTK in general, but shotguns have the fastest in close ranges, but in return suffer if enemies are further than the OHK range as the fire rate of shotguns is not that great and damage drops fast after OHK range.
    There is also high change that player misses the enemy in close range or not all the pellets land.

    Shotguns in BF4 are decently balanced as almost every map has really long ranges and shotguns benefit players that are closing in all the time but are useless for players that stay in the range.

    Now in PS2 the shotguns are meant to be used in Knife range, which means that the shotgun is used like ammo using knife and not as a close range weapons.
    The 30m range in PS2 is very short range in terms how big the areas can get. Indoors areas are not always 10m long and most of the time are a lot larger, meaning that the shotgun does not realy have much use even indoors. And when we are talking about ranges outside the building we have kilometers of open land to fight in where shotguns are pointless as snipers and rifles are then ones that rule there.

    Now what about the OHK? well its neat if you can acoplish that in such a short range but with that range you could just equip the OHK knifes and run with them, you save your primary for better weapons and have OHK knife with you.

    In my oppinion the Shotguns need better min damage range, possibly up to 50m. Why 50m? because the pellet spread is already so high that even on 10m the there is a lot missing pellets. However this could be sligtly fixed by reducing the spread by 0.5 degree from 90% of the shotguns. However the fire rate in return should be reduced, atleast from semi and full auto shotguns.
    because shotguns in PS2 are the most restricted weapons in terms of use, compared to other weapons, or even other online games with shotguns.

    If you want real life comparison to the games shotguns. In real life the shotguns have effective range of 24m-50m which depends on the ammunition and choke, some can reach to 64m however the spread can hinder the inflicted damage. Also the spread is much lower in reality than its in games, however even this can change depending on what kind of choke the shotgun has or how long the barrel is.

    just my 500 letters about the topic.
  9. Demigan

    Seriously, the only reason I won't be accusing you of using an instanced fight with Novice bots is because they would be better than these scrubs. Where do you find these morons? You are running right through them, you could have knifed half of them to death before one of them reacts!
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  10. Demigan

    And again, where do you find those lemmings? Your "charge them straight until I'm close enough" rarely works where I'm from. You have to surprise them or go home. Get seen before you are in effective range? You are dead motherfornicator!
  11. CapEnTrade

    Buff them immediately.
  12. Chewy102

    Oh how do I get the feels about these talks.

    When shotguns are talked about for infantry. They are called over niche and rather bad for anything but exact areas while being proven so. But when shotguns are talked about for MAXes. All hell breaks loose and shotguns are held as gods.

    Hyperbole for that last part but this is why I quit PS2. NC can NEVER be equal on a faction level to TR or VS as long as MAXes have no ******* options in weapon types.

    Like or hate MAXes, like or hate shotguns, that isn't the point. The point is that everyone has a CHOICE to use what they want but MAXes. And for as long as MAXes don't have that choice then the faction with the most limited gear is always, ALWAYS, going to be the worst of them all.
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  13. Reclaimer77

    NC Emerald? LAWL!
  14. bLind db

    So you want to potentially be able to one-shot people up to 50m away, based entirely on RNG of your pellet spread, or allowing slugs to one-shot reliably at 50m? Are you ******* stupid? There are few reasons to even engage an enemy with an LMG at 50m, much less a shotgun.

    It's bad enough that scatter/hacksaw maxes can easily two-shot someone up to 30m with slugs, when aim is literally irrelevant. No need to add that sort of damage to every ****ter in the game, because I guarantee you, with this sort of buff, literally nobody will play anything but shotgun HA.
  15. omegaskorpion


    When i said 50m i also said the min damage range. Which is: 130 max damage 8m > 50 min damage 50m
    Current damage in range with shotguns is: 130 max damage 8m > 50 min damage 18m

    Most of the shotguns have 6 pellets. that is 780 damage in 8m if all 6 pellets hit.

    Currently that damage drops to 300 in just 10m, not to mention the pellet spread which reduces that damage even more.

    Now with 50m MIN (not max) damage range it takes 42m before the shotgun is in min damage compared to current 10m.
    So with better min damage range the shotguns can shoot further, but wont one shot in medium ranges, which makes shotguns better in medium range so player does not need to shoot 5 times with shotgun to kill enemy in 20-30m away (however remember that the spread still affects alot how much damage can be dealth in range).

    Now about the slugs. I havent speaked about slugs yet and even in game the slugs have differend stats than the pellets.

    The problem with maxes with slugs is that the shotguns WITH slugs are very inaccurate. And shooting 6-8 times with both hands and then spending 4s in reload cycle is very long time and enough for any other max to kill nc max.

    Nc max slugs deal 500-600 damage, but they still have low max damage range, it drops to 400 damage in that 30m

    So comparing VS or TR maxes with their 50-60 mags with 143-163 max damage in 10m and min damage in 60m with 400-500 rof is more powerfull than 6-8 mag 600 damage 8m 400 damage in 30m with 200 rof.

    If that was hard to read than this should be easier: Constant non stop fire with good range is better than high damage burst in short range.
  16. Codex561

    Nearly auraxiumed both and can say that both are OP pieces of ****.

    They require a very specific play style, that's all.
  17. eldarfalcongravtank

    that's why i prefer the Baron. not only is it more forgiving, it also works better in a technical sense.

    the pumpactions are only fun if the servers dont act up and hitreg makes every pellet connect to the target. otherwise it's just a frustrating experience. i have literally had my Phobos hit the chest of an opponent, only to see me get killed 2 seconds later by said opponent who was still at full health on the death screen. yes, it is that bad with the pumpactions.
  18. omegaskorpion

    And that is the worst part of it all, when weapon says ists shotgun i expect weapon that is power house in close range and decent in medium range like in most games. Then along comes PS2 and says that this is your alternative knife, it replaces your primary but you can one shot enemies if you are in their face, however watchout for the randomized pellet spread that can make you miss in 5m range.

    Yeah, the semiauto shotguns are ok with slug rounds, but pump actions suck both with slugs and regular ammo.

    Baron and Jackhammer are okayish, being able to kill enemies in 20m range with 3 shots, that is if the rng pellets allow it to happen.
    not to mention that its easier to kill with fully automatic weapon that close range sniper weapon.

    So good for you, you master the knife range. Yet you still dont want to see your auraxiumed weapons be bit better outside knifing?
  19. Jubikus

    Everyone knows the best shotgun isnt a shotgun but is a shotgun.

    Its the Jackhammer.
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  20. Gundem

    This is a PC discussion, not PS4. It's a world of difference between the two.