PTS: Carbines can be hip fired accurately while flying

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by Iridar51, Oct 13, 2016.

  1. Iridar51


    (keep in mind this is just PTS patchnotes and everything can potentially get cancelled to hell)

    Specifically, while flying on the jetpack, you will be considered standing moving. All CoF mechanics, like CoF bloom and CoF reset will apply. For all intents and purposes, you will be able to hip fire while flying just as you can while running on the ground.

    There is a caveat: it only applies if you actively fly with engaged Jet Pack. If you let go of the Jump Key and start falling, you will lose Laser Sight benefit, and your CoF will no longer reset. It will all go back to normal if you re-engage the jet pack, though.

    Aerial combat will be a real thing!
    • Up x 5
  2. Armcross

    I prefer aiming down sight, it is more immersive.
    • Up x 1
  3. Corezer

    shooting while flying will be nice on occasion I guess, but as an Icarus user I am more happy to see that my bloom will be that much smaller and shrink that much faster upon landing.

    lol no more suicide c4 into buildings, it's gonna be suicide barons resource free now.
  4. FirePhox

    Hooray! LA is finally becoming a real assault class! instead of just an engineer with no utility that can get into and out of weird places easier. Add in the incoming Rocklet Rifle and the future is, at long last, looking very bright for the light assault. :)

    I for one am ready for the incoming heavy salt, and epic mid air duels! No longer will we be forced to die when we get spotted mid flight because of a **** huge CoF; hopefully this will really shake up the stale meta.
  5. Daigons

    It felt really good testing out my carbines on PTS with my drifter jets. It might even be useful to use that new utility slot item that adds more fuel to our jump jets. Can you imagine the carnage if they added shotguns to this new mechanic?
  6. Demigan

    Considering it wasn't added in the current patch I feel like we've been teased again. It shouldn't be that hard to set all Carbines to standing moving COF while in flight, regardless of how many Carbines we've gotten so far. It would be harder to write the changelog than change the actual Carbines.
  7. Iridar51

    Yeah, they're pulling the change back for now, since it causes issues with LAs flying indoors and clipping into ceilings. A lot of people also give feedback it would be OP to give the ability to zoom around at high speeds and fire accurately, and instead suggested to tie hip fire accuracy to traveling distance.

    So you could float and shoot accurately, but not use a jump pad to slingshot at 9 km/sec and still be just as accurate.

    Seems like an elegant solution, but naturally would require more coding. I don't know if DBG actually decided to pursue that solution, though.

    It'll probably be released together with new iteration of rocklet rifle as some part of big LA update god knows when.
  8. Demigan

    Hmm, never really saw any problems with LA's clipping the celing, but that does need to be looked at then.

    I don't think the ability to move fast and fire relatively accurately (it's still hipfire) is that OP, especially considering things like stealth and heavy shields. It would rather be a justified buff to the LA if you ask me.

    Rather than traveling distance, which would pretty much screw over Icarus and standard jumpjets due to their forced high velocity, I would use horizontal velocity as your COF size. At a certain speed the minimum COF size will grow the faster you'll go. This prevents the 'OP' Drifters zooming about and murdering people.
    Personally I think that it wouldn't be OP (well duh I would say that as pretty dedicated LA), you still can't use your ADS and compared to the buttload of tools, abilities and weapons that other classes offer it would only be a justified buff that cements the LA's mobility during combat rather than just being outside of combat.

    I was wrong though, it wouldn't be as easy as I said before since I thought they just flat out changed the falling COF on Carbines. But if it's true that falling COF would be different from flying COF then it requires more code than I thought it would anyway.

    Sigh, that's gonna take a while, if it happens at all.
    The only thing that seems to be any real advantage so far is the 20% minimum COF increase to the Flashbangs, but that's still hopelessly weak compared to a partial concussion grenade.

    The LA should get things like small grenades that explode on contact to flush people out of cover (about 250 damage in a large center AOE?). Teamwork tools like a ping device that shows enemy locations at that moment but doesn't update until you ping it again after it recharges, or a teamwork tool that puts a wireframe over all enemies you spot so they are visible through objects and walls for yourself and allies to better hunt them down (vehicular nightvision goggles apparently use wireframes now for nearby terrain features, infantry and vehicles, so the wireframe feature is already there). Maybe upgrade smoke grenades to create false signatures on the map? That way these grenades become even more useful at obfuscating yourself, and so many more things...
  9. Iridar51

    I don't see much issue with it either, to be honest. At this point I'm not ready to call it OP or not, but it would certainly change a lot in how players interact with a Light Assault, on both sides.

    I didn't participate in PTS Playtest, but I did participate in a small 2v2 skirmish on PTS. Just a bunch of strangers I met. It was certainly a liberating feeling to be able to hip fire on the fly.
    • Up x 1
  10. Corezer

    I don't think it is going to be OP, drifters cant strafe well due to momentum mechanics currently in place, it will balance out the speed.

    for JJ it will make u less vulnerable while flying places, but not much will change for the way people play them, you are still somewhat vulnerable to people attacking from range, so you will still be choosing the safest jumps as one always did.

    for Icarus it will allow you to more quickly engage targets after getting on a roof or whatnot, since you wont have to wait as long on CoF, but again not much different.

    biggest change I can see is LA will be the premiere class for coming out the vehicle bay tunnel with in tech plants, and it's still a bad idea overall but maybe can be enough of a threat to force more over and allow a flank by others? that's super niche...
  11. Problem Officer

    What's being introduced against LA for once?
  12. Iridar51

    I don't even know how to answer that without sarcasm.

    YES, if only blind developers would finally nerf the annoying and overpowered Light Assault! Way past time they'd dealt with this most versatile, popular and desirable class! Especially those LA mains that socialize on LA subforum! All of them just can't wait until earthshattering nerfs finally hit them! Finally they will be rid of self hatred and self loathing they face each day by forcing themselves to main this class!

    For ONCE, DBG, nerf the damn Light Assaults, we as a collective were begging you for YEARS, why you don't listen, DBG?!

    /end sarcasm
    • Up x 1
  13. Diggsano

    Exactly this!

  14. FirePhox

    I'm pretty sure it won't be OP; most of the people that argue against the changes seem to be the type of people that don't see anything wrong with a different class getting +60% hp at the touch of a button, or invisibility coupled with OHK weapons but I digress.

    When I used to use drifters more, as a shotgun LA, most players didn't seem to have any difficulty hitting me; obviously at close range that might be a little bit different but Light Assault is advertised as a "Close Range Skirmisher" which is something that the class most definitely is not at the moment.

    If not much else, these changes will most certainly make the class considerably more fast paced. One thing that always puzzled me with the Light Assault is that it never felt more light than any of the other classes, depending on which weapon you were using it could in many cases actually be slower in combat.

    I've been watching some of wrel's uncut/live streams and it's quite apparent what the team is trying to accomplish with the changes. They want to give the class some unique attributes (ability to run-n-gun) with somewhat decent accuracy, while at the same time giving them some utility to make them more competitive with the other assault class in a general sense. The devs have the metrics and I'm pretty certain that they show a overwhelming bias towards heavy on all servers; that's not to say that LA can't be useful but they are niche compared to the other classes. (which is why platoons often frown on them)

    Even with the potential changes, no one knows if LA will ever be truly competitive with the Heavies overshield, but at least LA will be the go-to anti aircraft class with the new Rocklet Rifle.
  15. Eternaloptimist

    Well..............maybe they could restrict us to using shotguns. Then nerf the shotgun to fire only one pellet at a time. Maybe increase it's range slightly, then they could remove sidearms from the LA loadout as being unecessary duplication, so we'd have two empty toolslots compared to other classes.

    A flashing light on the jump jet pack (faction colours ofc) so that we are no longer totally invisible when flying through the air? Make the jumpjet sound "Flight of the Valkyries" so that we are no longer inaudible either.

    Oh, I'm sorry, you're being bad.
  16. Iridar51

    Very much doubt the Rocklet will be more than a nuisance for ESF, and a complete non-factor to larger aircraft.
    That said, all current AA options are just a nuisance, so I guess that's as a good as it gets.

    Go to AA class for beginners - would be more accurate to say.
  17. Problem Officer

    Lots of things that aren't OP get nerfed.
    Everything should be nerfed, every year. It's a good thing.
    Trust in DBG.
  18. FirePhox

    Don't be too sure; provided the rocklet rifle reaches live in its current state, even a single LA can deal significant damage to an ESF that is engaging in close range A2G. (one clip is almost 50% esf health) While skyknights rocketing around in the stratosphere are unlikely to notice its presence, any one closer to ground is liable to be hit. Don't forget that this is opening up a new form of retaliation (G2A) which was basically locked for a large percentage of players before. One rocklet's chip damage is nothing but 5 Light Assaults shooting skyward could soon scare off most singular threats; while the velocity isn't super (it's better than any of the dumbfires) the accuracy is good even when flying; I'll bet the more skilled players will be able to land shots up to reasonable altitudes.

    Personally I'm quite excited to see where the RR will take LA's and the meta. The ability to quickly engage air and also armour from great heights and great distances (RR has low projectile drop) could really help break up stalemates and give the Light Assault the utility it has been denied all these years.
  19. Demigan

    Hmm, let's start with:
    Adrenalin pump which was LA exclusive giving to Infiltrators.
    Smoke grenades given to everyone with an underbarrel grenade launcher, but for free and replenishable with ammo packs. Additionally the invention of the .ini file allowing players to simply deactivate smoke or alternatively simply using lower graphics settings making smoke almost useless.
    All classes but the LA getting new toys while the LA gets nothing, when he finally does get something it's only an Icarus Jumpet and a small update to the Drifter but still no toolslot, oh and a pretty useless flightsuit. in the meantime other classes have gotten extra weapons, alternate abilities and alternate tools.
    Spitfires. Contrary to popular belief, Spitfires are useful, and they are the most useful against the LA. Warning enemies of the LA presence and even killing any LA foolish enough to think to fly for extended times in Spitfire range (hint: Spitfires have a TTK of 3 seconds or less once they start firing, not a lot of time to be flying in).
    Weapons like the Kobalt and Basilisk have gotten improved elevation ranges, which does not much for most classes but is a big problem for LA.
    Detection methods like proxy-radar and scout-radar have improved over time, and the LA is the most reliant on not being seen. The infiltrator at least can still give his enemies the slip, but the LA is tracked much more easily.

    So yeah, the LA was always ignored, it's gotten it's toys given out to other classes, it had features that players could simply turn off or make useless and it has been indirectly nerfed a few times.
    And look right here! "OMG they will be accurate when flying, the horror!"
    What the hell are you talking about? Even with the Drifter jumpjet you are still sacrificing your sideways strafe for a forwards dash and you are bound by momentum so your flight path is incredibly predictable while flying, making you a much easier target than an ADAD spamming guy.
    So the only advantage you get as LA is a more speedy attack when using drifters, and a safer movement when flying up buildings as you don't have to wait for your COF to settle before opening fire.

    The LA has had enough nerfs. If you had a balance sheet of the amount of nerfs vs buffs, the LA would be worst off of all the classes.
    Also I do trust in DBG. They've been immensely good at changing the game for the better. They don't do it perfectly and there's usually a few flaws, but can you deny that the Construction system wasn't a stroke of genius that everyone has asked for since PS2's conception (despite it's flaws)? Can you deny that the added weapons, idea's and abilities they have added and have in the pipeline weren't good? They are doing good, they still mess up from time to time but compared to how SOE handled it... These guys are 50 times better. DBG doesn't buff it to heaven and nerf it to oblivion, they buff and nerf in smaller increments, getting closer to the wanted power each time.
  20. Iridar51

    Well holy ****, gentlemen, it's really happening. Didn't think they'd have the balls to actually go through with the changes. Believe it or not, buffing carbines in that way is a huge buff to LA overall. It's not so much about actively engaging while flying or drifting. Flying LA is a relatively easy target. It's more about cutting response time - you no longer have to land before you can effectively engage, and not being completely helpless.

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