Prowler Totally Not OP vs Hives

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by guerrillaman, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. FateJH

    Regardless of damage rate, you can't convince me that that Vanguard is trying very hard. I'll give him credit for wanting to line up shots with the emplacement itself rather than the turret strut like the Prowler does; and, I'll forgive him for that foray when he pulls back after damage from somewhere. Regardless, he takes some jabs at it, stops, switches target, takes some jabs at it, stops again, rolls forward, and plays with other targets. I have to recount but it feels the Prowler focused many more shots against one target than the Vanguard did against all its targets, and Titan HEAT doesn't have anywhere near the damage profile of P2-120 AP to justify that kind of teasing.

    The Prowler even tanks that damage coming from off the left so that it can maintain fire uninterrupted.
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  2. guerrillaman

    Both videos are of me. In the vanguard video, if you pay attention to the dmg, the rate of the auto repair was out pacing my dmg. I switched targets to see if the other turret didn't have repair on it. The thing is I'm not a tanker by any means. I could line that prowler up like it was nothing. Literally it is nothing. Zero effort honestly. .. the vanguard though, that recoil is a *****.
  3. guerrillaman

    Good luck duplicating this with any NC/VS tanks LOL.

    I didn't even have a gunner!

  4. customer548

    Fire rate versus temporay invulnerability versus mobility.
    Teamplay. Planning def. Planing attacks. Adapting to the attackers. Using the right counter-measure depending on the threat.
    Nothing new.
    I share your opinion about the "easy" ROF (I wouldn't say it's "OP" however) which is more than helpful in certain cases. I don't know a lot about MBTs. As a solo MBT user only (my fault), I know that I get way more easily wrecked while driving a Prowler. I have a way longer lifespan with Vanguards, for obvious reasons (I would buff a bit the temporary invul. durability, but again: i don't know a lot about MBTs). A MBT which has been destroyed cannot deal any damage.
  5. SpeedFreakPS1

    The RoF combined with shell velocity is OP on the prowler the Magrider's supposed advantage goes out the window because of this and loses both at distance and up close to the Prowler so where is the balance in that ??

    Oh and that's just the main guns, if there is a GK gunner which can point and click forget about it
  6. JKomm

    The Prowler cannot move in this state, if you are incapable of strafing around to the rear of the vehicle that's not a problem with it... it's a problem with you. One AP round from a Magrider, a single Saron burst, and it will severely incapacitate a Prowler from the rear to the point that it is INCAPABLE of victory.

    Even as an Engineer using C4, I have zero difficulty dealing with a Prowler, they are incredibly vulnerable to attacks that are not to their front. Strike their side or their rear before they see you and you'll win, their reaction is to undeploy and escape... that removes their rate of fire and velocity advantage you hate.
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  7. Pat22

    HEAT cannons are more effective against structures than AP, just so you know.
  8. JKomm

    Except AP is more effective against constructed turrets... they should change it so HEAT has the only benefit against all constructs, making it so when you attack a player-base and loadout for it, you become less effective against enemy armour. That would be a perfect downside. Realistically all you need to do is tear down the turrets and it doesn't matter what you use for the walls/modules/structures... because of this, AP is superior to HEAT currently.
  9. Pat22

    That's silly. HEAT should be the most effective against all constructs.
  10. JKomm

    That's what I'm saying they should change to. Currently AP is more powerful against the turrets, which makes them the obvious choice for attacking bases. It shouldn't be this way, HEAT should have the only advantage against constructs.
  11. SpeedFreakPS1


    Maybe in a Vanguard not a Mag, if the operator has 2 clues there is no way you are going to win because you need to be close and as I stated the Mag loses in both situations close and at a distance
  12. Graubeorn


    I am sure you can do all that. But while some like it easy, others like challenge, so luckily TR & Prowlers isn't the only option..

    This is about neither though, it is about a level playing field regarding bases. Most bases are being built by 1-2 players, regardless of faction/continent. If the same 1-2 players of one out of three factions get a much easier option to destroy bases (and a GK Prowler against a stationary base is about as easy as it gets) it really spells game "imbalance".

    It also has nothing to do with mustering a multitude of combined forces to stop the attack, nor has it anything to do with the factions having different MBTs. It also has absolutely nothing to do with "tactics" (the claim that applying a GK Prowler against a base is "tactics" is a joke, right?).

    Rather it is just simple mathematics. All bases take the same energy & effort to build but one faction can currently more easily destroy enemy bases than the other two, simply due to game math (dps/pop/nanites etc). There are two conclusions that can be drawn from this:

    1) either the game is unbalanced (in this narrow regard), and so needs some sort of re-balancing, or
    2) the game is still balanced, which means that one faction needs this kind of help in order to compete on equal footing with the other two.
  13. Slandebande

    Or 3) The situations being showcased where the Prowler has the advantage typically shows bases built in incredibly weak positions, allowing enemies to fire upon them from range. If people would actually invest some thought into the placement of bases/modules, this wouldn't be that much of a problem. Also, this game generally isn't balanced around 1v1's (or even small fights), which is showcased in many other situations. Meaning a Prowler being able to destroy a construction base built by 1-2 people is not something the balance team is much concerned with.
  14. xxx-reaper

    Time. End of story.
    The prowlers are such high DPS a few can completely wipe out a lightly defended base before anyone can pull a tank, Gal, Lib, get in range with a strong AV weapon or get a single kill with the long range AV weapons. They can sit ~500m without a problem.
  15. Slandebande

    So can the Magrider/Vanguard. Or are you also of the opinion that they are somehow incapable of hitting a stationary target at 500m? :D

    That's the thing, too many people are obsessed with passive defenses, and prefer to only react after things have started happening. What if you, in order to defend your base, already had a Gal/Lib up in the air or a Harasser/tank roaming around? A Valk flying around ready for your squad to spawn into as C4'LAs is also quite effective. The Valk could even be landed inside the base.

    First of all, not many aspects in this game are balanced around a 1v1 scenario (or similar small-scale fights). Point in case: Aircraft, crazy strong in isolated fights, but cannot be in the middle of large (contested) fights. The Prowlers advantage is

    And you really should specify what a "lightly defended base" is, since you already claimed there is more than 1 Prowler, meaning most likely at least 4 people. If you have 6 people defending with Lancers/Ravens/MANA-turrets you can really mess up the Prowlers day, especially if you are equipped for the occassion (Flak 5 etc). Add 1 additional person in an aircraft, and the Prowlers won't be able to effectively disengage either. End of Prowlers.
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  16. Daigons

    Redesign the Prowler's ES ability so it has a brief active state with a long cool down so it'll be on par with the other faction MBT's ES abilities cooldown states. It was a extremely poor design choice to allow Prowlers to remain in their ES uber state until canceled.
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  17. JKomm

    The reason it can remain in Anchor indefinitely is because it's the only empire specific ability which has a downside to it as well... the Vanguard Shield blocks damage briefly, but nothing else. The Magburner boosts and accelerates the vehicle, but nothing else. The Anchor increases velocity, reduces primary cannon reload, but completely disables movement. Of the three it's the only one with a downside, as such it's positive factor seems higher to compensate.

    I daresay that turning it's ability into one which is brief yet without the downside would make the Prowler even more powerful.
  18. Slandebande

    There are a couple of things to be considered about such a change:
    • Anchor mode will generally be made harder to use with such a change
      • Less up-time meaning you also have to be able to fight without the ability "on"
        • A general nerf to long-range capabilities
        • A similar nerf to overall sustained DPS output
      • Much like the Vanguard shield it can be baited by experienced enemies
      • It has the potential (again, like the Shield) to be used with poor timing
    • It is potentially MUCH stronger in the hands of experienced users
      • Battles are more often-than-not decided within timeframes similar to the duration I would guess such an ability would have
      • Can be used on the move, meaning the experienced tankers capable of performing blitz-strikes (firing at 100% accuracy without impacting their RoF driving at full speed in most terrain)
      • Can be used instantly (compared to the Anchor-time required currently)
        • Can therefore be used to exploit enemy mistakes
        • Synergizes a bit more with typical tanking strategies (using cover etc)
        • Much more effective at short-range due to the lack of downside associated with using the buff
        • Can be used much more efficiently at turning around a bad situation in the sense that it can be activated without delay, allowing you to perhaps come out on top in some situations
    • Lessens the farming potential of the Prowler
      • Slower overall RoF leading to less saturation
      • Lower overall DPS means it is harder to brute-force your way to victory by relying on panicking enemies
    • Better brawling ability
      • Able to stay mobile without giving up much DPS if skilled enough
      • Allows more diverse loadouts (if the secondary also benefitted from the change for example)
      • Able to instantly use the increased fire-power, rendering the Prowler stronger in situations where it doesn't get in the first shot (can be very important)
    • Higher situational killing potential
      • While the overall DPS is lower, if the Prowler finds an opportune firing location, it will be able to decimate enemies without being forced to be stationary
      • One of the biggest things about such a change would be the ability to keep up the crazy DPS whilst strafing to avoid enemy fire
    • Harder to dislodge such Prowlers from camping positions due to them generally having an easier time maintaining situational awareness
      • Caused by:
        • Slower RoF
        • Ability to stay mobile
        • Likely skills regarding non-Anchored stats will increase

    Note: I'm not saying all these are bad (or good), just things that need to be considered about such a proposal. The general trend is that while it might be more powerful in the hands of experienced users, it would be significantly nerfed with regards to non-dedicated tankers that won't have the overall skillset to take full advantage of the change. Furthermore, I'm of the opinion that the ability (either in it's current state, or the one you proposed) should also benefit the secondary weapon, with a smaller effect for the primary weapons (compared to the current implementation). I'm in favor of many of those changes personally.

    I completely agree when looking at experienced users that know how to flank effectively. However, for the average Joe out there, it will be a nerf as they won't be as effective at hitting over longer ranges etc, generally forcing them closer to the action. It should also reduce the overall farming ability of the Prowler, while making it a better brawler. I personally think it is a good change, but it has to be implemented carefully to make it balanced in both "camps". I personally think it should be balanced around effecting the secondary weapon as well (perhaps with a less pronounced effect for the primary weapon to compensate).
  19. stalkish

    Ye but in WW2:
    • turrets didnt traverse 360 in less than a second
    • smoke actualy blocked LOS
    • there was no magical Q spotting with floating doritos
    • no minimap
    But having said that i agree 100% with your sentiment.
    When we (my outfit) build a base we always have a Vanguard on standby, and a close vehicle terminal with spawn beacon or cloaked sundy for quickly reinforcing with more Vanguards / other vehicles. We also usualy have 1 or 2 pilots ready to respond if **** hits the fan.
    And thats just a small outfit with less than a squad, massive zergfits arnt needed to plan strategies. People really have no excuse to let 1 prowler ruin their whole base, sure a turret or 2 before you can respond but not the entire base.
  20. LodeTria


    The problem is as soon as you start un-deploying you can move now so it's basically as much of a downside as old ZoE is, letting you come out of it whenever you please.

    Also, it is stronger now than it would be if it let you moved but have limited duration, as it gives you far far more DPS over longer periods.