[Vehicle] Prowler may be the worst tank in the game (Slightely in depth, bait title)

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by karlooo, Jul 23, 2020.

  1. BengalTiger

    HEAT - standard 120's. I also like the centerline mounted guns, more conventional for the conventional army...
    And puts less stress on the turret ring too.

    HE - larger caliber and shorter barrels (over-under 155 mm - Russia actually tested an SPG like this)...

    AP (version in rear with long barrels) Mother of all gattling guns - there was a 37 mm made IRL. Degrades armor like the HSTV-L, only with moar dakka.
    Now we have unique loadouts for the tank.

    Anyways, how does mobility synergize with the deployment option? Well, you are supposed to use them in sequence: flank, deploy, overwhelm with firepower. Now Prowler is not as bad as depicted. It just needs to be used as a ninja tank a bit.

    Another thing nobody talks about too much is how the Prowler has more gun depression than that Vanguard and a smaller turret.
    This is very important when hull down, at long range especially, which stacks with the deployed mode's high shell velocity.
    Maggie can't hull down due to low mounted gun, but IIRC it has even more depression so it could fire from wonkier terrain than the others.
    • Up x 1
  2. karlooo

    I like most of the suggestions except the delayed time fuse, I find it cheesy and the support style abilities, like radar and Router. Is the Marker Dust fired from a gun?
    Artillery deployment - Is this a dart gun ability? That's sounds really cool but would probably require too much communication and would be rarely used efficiently. I already tried to use the dart gun in no construction zones by flying above it and I don't find it fun.
    _______________________________________________


    I also came up with another concept lol.
    I noticed that in the middle of the turret there is some empty space, which would be used in interesting ways by adding some item in there but with a downside of course:

    The concept would start off with renaming the Primary Weapon attachment: 'Optic' -> into Right Click.
    So the player can choose the standard zoom optics or a special addition, which as a downside removes the ability to super charge your rounds because of the space it uses in the turret, therefore you cannot deploy.
    Because of this you will lose most of your anti Air capabilities and hitting targets from range with ease.

    (I made a close replica of the turret to show visually what I mean)

    Special attachments:
    Can only elevate and depress with your main gun.


    25 mm Auto cannon with High Explosive rounds
    Fire Rate: 300 RPM
    Direct damage: 10
    Indirect Damage: 200 / 0.5m / 25 / 2.5m
    Muzzle Velocity: 200 m/sec
    Ammunition: HEAT mechanic - Shoots 20 rounds before overheating
    [IMG]
    So by these stats I'm just trying to show that it's primarily meant for fighting infantry.
    The Muzzle velocity is the same as on the HEAT and HESH cannon, which means this secondary weapon can be used as a simple range finder by firing rounds at the enemy to determine what angle of elevation you need to aim for your main gun to hit the target.
    As I said before you cannot deploy.

    ----------------------------------------

    Many more guns can be added similar to this, like for example a smoke grenade launcher. Sometimes enemies have heavily fortified positions, would be nice if you could fire some smoke at them for your team to be able to advance forward and get into positions.

    A Flame thrower could be added also. You lose the ability to range find but you are able to completely suppress or destroy enemies hiding behind cover close to you.


    New Night Vision Optic concept
    [IMG]
    By right clicking you will emit this special light only visible to you and your top gunner and no one else. It lights up the area you're aiming at as if you were shining a spotlight on it and also illuminates hostile cloaked infiltrators.
    There should be a small visual downside to this item -> On activation the light will glow red, like on the picture.

    This device should not emit light in a cone shape because it's going to end up like the Darklight flashlight, where at close range is shines like a laser and then you're out of range after like 15 meters lol.
    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    Having a constant size in a shape of a cylinder would be best IMO and over distance its effect should decay.
  3. Pikachu

    @BengalTiger

    You have interest in military vehicles too I see. :D

    [IMG]

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  4. Demigan

    Its unclear what you think of the support style abilities this way. But the aim of these abilities is to focus vehicle gameplay more on combined arms with tanks and infantry supporting each other.

    The marker dust would be an upgrade that some smoke systems would get. Vehicle smoke would get it but LA smoke grenades as well, allowing LA's to mark targets for themselves and their infantry/vehicle allies. Teamwork and all that stuff. Besides that you would have options for the Grenade Farms and Mortars to fire marker dust ammunition.

    Artillery deployment would preferably be a laser-fired gun. Example:


    Forgive the video but its about that weapon he holds: you fire a visible non-damaging laser and need to keep it stationary (!) On the ground or a target for a few moments. Then the area is marked and the artillery will fire automatically(there seems a bit of confusion that the Prowler owner would need to fire manually after a target is painted, which would be hard if the owner is the one firing the dart. naturally there wont be an orbital strike coming down like in UT!).
    The advantages of this is that the user has to reveal himself to use it and there's a chance for enemies to anticipate and retaliate. There wont be Infils firing a dart and being cloaked before the dart is even visible to the opposition.
    An added advantage is that the laser can have after-shot effects. If the mortars fire guided rounds then keeping the laser on can help the player guide the rounds to the target if it moves.


    That auto-canon you propose uses multiple shots to dial in the range to a target. The exact thing we've been trying to convince you is an advantage the Prowler's two shots give.

    Regardless, all 3 MBT's should get something like this, each with their own focus. Your TR version would focus on helping the player dial in the range. But I wouldnt sacrifice Anchor for it, why would you take away things when you could make tanks swiss army knives so that they can feel like tanks without requiring to just vaporize a room with a single shot?
    My version of your co-ax auto-canon: it does not replace the optic or Anchor, its fired with ctrl (or another free button). You can only fire either the main canon or the secondary at a time. In this mode it has the same elevation ranges as the main guns.
    "In this mode?" Yes! Like an ESF you can also switch directly to this auto-canon at which point the elevation range goes waaay up to Skyguard levels. A weapon like this would be an ideal way to add some light and skillful G2A to vehicles, giving them at least a chance at defending themselves. You can also make it anti-light armor. Imagine if we add an light-armor explosion that similar to Dalton's can deal damage to vehicles with the AOE. Heavy armor vehicles like MBT's and Sunderers would have in the 90%+ damage reduction against this, but Harassers and ESF would receive a lot of damage. Giving the projectiles a miniature coyote-style tracking of aircraft (say 0.5 to 2m) would help them get the accuracy they need against them while the velocity can be used to determine the effective range against various aircraft.

    This would also open up options like the early Lightning concept:
    https://images.app.goo.gl/kESfTvMbd1TbpL439

    An ATGM launcher for heavy AV and a large rotary auto-canon for dealing with infantry, light vehicles and aircraft.

    The grenade launcher is similar to the grenade-farm/mortar idea, except it takes a valuable co-ax slot. It would need a lot of magazine size to be worth it, but in combination with that Marker Dust it could be a valuable tool.

    The special light should work for everyone on your team. Why throw away a perfect opportunity for people to play together? It should work similar to the marker dust: enemies revealed by it would be visible through walls if you use tactical scopes.
  5. Demigan

    Holy crap and I thought this 30mm version was a mistake:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gry...hipunov GSh-6,and later CIS military aircraft.

    This one already destroys things on the plane like its landinglights, landing gear, a canopy was jettisoned, instrument panels fel off, fuel tanks got ruptures and the frame got stress fractures. That isnt even mentioning bullet fragments damaging planes within 200m of the impact point.

    Considering that, what would a 37mm gatling gun do? Level a small village?
  6. BengalTiger

    It would kinda do what a Bofors 40 could, being that the 37 mm was based off the 40 mm round, so yeah, it would disassemble a plane in flight so not a single rivet would remain intact with maybe 2 good hits...

    Pikachu - are you still around on Cobalt NC?
  7. Pikachu

    I have the game installed to check new things out but I don't play anymore. Nowadays I only use PS2 assets for some 3d experiments.
    [IMG]
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  8. karlooo


    That's a good point because if you make MBTs some very powerful general combat vehicle then there would be no reason to pull anything else other than MBTs, they will just decimate everything....But we do have these outfit assets. MBTs could be limited to this for a small amount of outfit resources.
    It would make sense to limit the MBT, to make room and see more support vehicles on the battlefield, maybe allow for more vehicles to be added. MBTs should be only taken out when necessary for a specific purpose IMO, just like all the assets except this should be cheap.

    The way I imagine it would be that the outfit leader would set the limit to which players can purchase the MBT. It will instantly deduct resources from outfit and the player will receive a large cool-down from purchasing another tank.
  9. Demigan

    Oh no the last thing we need is to gate teamwork behind outfit resources and on top of that limit that teamwork by some random idiot who only thinks about the enjoyment of himself and his friends and just uses the rest of his outfit to gather resources for him. Seriously fornicate all the outfit stuff to hell.

    MBT's wouldn't be the only things that would be focused on teamwork and combined arms. The goal would also be that while vehicles would be swiss army knives with half a dozen weapons and abilities ready, their opponents would similarily be outfitted with tools and abilities. Such as my good old idea of giving infantry resource-costing AV, AA and AI weapons that go into the utility slot.
  10. karlooo

    Again...The leader will be able to limit the use of the MBT to the players outfit rank, you know like recruit, member....There are players that want to specialize in vehicle combat. Lets say the leader adds a new outfit rank called: Tank Commander for these type of players. Only these guys will be able to purchase the MBT, no crafting, it will just deduct resources instantly once purchased and the purchaser will receive a large CD from purchasing a new MBT.


    Yes what you said is true for NC, but for the TR I'm sure their player base wouldn't mind. In exchange for upgrading the MBT.
  11. Demigan

    Again, fornicate the leader and any limits to vehicles. At no point should any player, regardless of him being in an outfit or not, be stopped from driving an MBT. And you seriously assume that the Prowler would get such upgrades but the Vanguard and Magrider to remain as they are? Holy crap just imagine if those leaders were smart and allowed everyone to pick these upgraded Prowlers! TR would decimate any and all opposition! You might as well allow Vulcans to fire Vanguard HE shells at Vulcan ROF and Magazine size!
    • Up x 1
  12. karlooo


    That's perfect! You're showing great passion for players freedom...But TR is a dictatorship. Faction uniqueness ;)
    I'm not asking for the Prowler to turn into a Colossus, just be more advanced, you know, what we where talking about before.
  13. BengalTiger

    What about people without outfits? Make one for themselves, as a one man army?
    I disagree...

    If we want better tanks...
    Tanks in PS 2 are very OP in terms of how fast they accelerate, a Harasser should just casually roll away from a Racer 3 Vanguard and yet it doesn't. I chase them down daily.
    I test drove the Colossus in the VR area, it picks up speed just as fast too.
    That means a tanker can do all sorts of things that don't involve being tanky.

    This would be the price I'd personally pay, back when the game was released the Vanguard was able to reach 65 or 66 km/h with Racer 3, now it goes like over 70. Remove this.
    It also had a gear shifting time of some .5 seconds (or probably close to a full second without upgrades), now I don't really notice this at all, just continuous acceleration. Bring that back. Let the tank have a speed limit in tight terrain using this method.

    Then we can talk about the AP shells going at sound speed or more, HE actually killing a target with splash damage alone and a couple other perks.
    And also I dream of only catching fire when hit by 2 C4's. With LA's having the rocklet launchers they still are capable of finishing an MBT in one go, it's just not instant anymore, and would fit better with the long TTK gameplay that most encounters have.
    • Up x 1
  14. OneShadowWarrior

    To further elaborate on this post, they nerfed the Prowler to much when they made anchor trash and then made barrage a better offer, with double shots both have to hit and your chances of missing are much higher especially if you are new or have a lower end system.

    Also the Prowler has a very high profile and is a very easy target to hit, you’ll find a Lightning can wipe you out with better maneuverability, lower profile.

    The big shield is a open target for everyone to shoot at, lack of surprise or mobility is death on the battlefield.
  15. DerMalle

    Prowler is the most useless Vehicle in the game really.
    Long distance: You will never hit both shots due to recoil or you aim carefully with both shots. In both cases the damage advantage is gone.
    Short distance: Vanguard has Shield - Vanguard wins. Magrider can only be hit to the front due to strafing. Would be even if the magrider couldnt just boost out and come back from a better angle or above from a mountain.

    The Prowler has no advantage. Anchor makes you even more of a sitting duck.
    If we could swap our MBT with any faction I would do it in a blink of an eye. Not so sure if other factions can claim the same.
  16. Demigan

    The average accuracy of the Prowler's guns seem about 5% off from the NC Vanguard so that "much higher chances of missing" is just bogus. Also if you would compare the ranges that these vehicles fire at you'll find that the Prowler will engage more targets at long range than the Vanguard, which makes sense since the Prowler has an easier time dialing in the range to longer range targets.

    The Prowler has the same profile as the other two MBT's. All 3 MBT's can be compared to the Lightning and you can easily say "see how powerful the Lightning is?", because the Lightning has been the secret equalizer between factions. It's the reason why no one instantly wins Esamir just by holding the techplant.

    The Vanguard has the highest recoil of any tank, and that is already almost non-existant. The Prowler's recoil is so low that you can hit both shots on a MAX without moving your reticule at 100m. If you miss both shots because of the Prowler's recoil then you weren't aiming right to begin with. The Prowler also has two shots to dial in range, which makes him the fastest to start scoring hits at long range and have the damage advantage. This is only increased when Anchor and Barrage is used.

    It's interesting that you ignore medium distance.

    At short distance the Prowler isn't a helpless kitten, it's still a Prowler. It's got the highest acceleration, speed and the best combination of speed&maneuverability allowing it to jockey for a better position. Unless you are truly just sitting there and trying to win a slugmatch you should be able to eke out a win.
    Also the Magrider cannot "just boost out". Where do people get these idea's from? It's as stupid as "NC Vanguards just pop their shield and charge you". No one does that more than once in their NC carreer because it's a recipe for disaster, you only do something like that in specific situations where you know just about everything about the situation. Magrider's will strafe in and out of cover, they'll only try to Magburn out when they are too far from cover and get hit too much as a last resort to get away, a hail-mary rather than something they'll do consistently to get out. They'll have to either show their broad side or their weaker rear to pull it off, so it's a risk for them rather than something they'll gladly do.
    • Up x 2
  17. karlooo

    We already talked about this. Prowler and Lightening have similarities in design -> they are both MBTs. Magrider and Vanguard are tanks with a specific purpose.
    Magrider is a fixed gun hover tank...Cannot be compared to a Lightening
    Vanguard is a breakthrough tank...You can't compare this to a Lightening.

    The reason why I call the Prowler a bastardized Lightening is because it removes the good aspects of an MBT: size and speed (Prowler is the widest tank in the game) and in return is armed with a double 120mm cannon.
    In fact it's not an MBT anymore, it's more of an Artillery tank with a failed design. 120 mm guns are not good enough.
    So then, is it an MBT?

    What the hell is this tank even?

    In your first comment that's actually a good point. The Prowler doesn't have the speed nor size to get on someones flank, so the Prowler usually appears in expected locations.
    This MBT armor value only makes your tank countered by fast and maneuverable vehicles like a Flash, Harasser, Lightening, Magrider...
    The Vanguard instead of maneuverability has extremely tough armor...another counter to the Prowlers damage.
  18. Johannes Kaiser

    Footnote: Or as a suicide run to flush out more inexperienced players.
  19. karlooo

    About the NC shield. I'll mention an incident that I had with a Vanguard not long ago and you guys tell me if this is perfectly fine:
    This was a clean 1v1 situation.

    So I purchased a HEAT, Barrage, Stealth Prowler (Solo load-out with AA second gun) as an attempt to take out spawns around one of our territories and maybe suppress infantry.
    While I was flanking I ran into a Vanguard with a Halberd top gunner that was not aware of my presence.
    I activated Barrage and put 2 shots into their rear. Instantly only the top gunner engaged me and the Vanguard activated the Shield.
    I shot another 2 shots into their side, at this time both top and main gun were engaging on me.
    I shot another 2 shots into their front, fired in 1 more shot and after that I died.

    The death screen showed that I needed to hit the target at least 4 more times (If the shield lasted)...
  20. Pelojian

    Prowler has always been an artillery tank/tank destoryer (pre-barrage with good tactics you could deploy in CQC fights).

    barrage makes the medium-close gameplay a little easier at the cost of the nerf to deploy mode (even if you combine deploy and barrage, pre-barrage deploy was better for artillery)

    with an ammo sundie you could heavily harass enemy vehicles at long range and destory them if you were accurate enough.

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