[Vehicle] Prowler may be the worst tank in the game (Slightely in depth, bait title)

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by karlooo, Jul 23, 2020.

  1. karlooo

    The Prowler has a double cannon, but what's the point if both opposing factions have an MBT that counters it with their own abilities? The Prowler is also neither fast and small in size.

    The Vangaurd user just presses F and you deal less than half your damage to it for 8 seconds. Countered your high Damage with a push of a button.
    All the Magrider has to do is just turbo out. Again countered your attack and also you gave away your position with nothing out of it.
    Prowlers speed is nearly on par with both MBT's so you won't get on their flank easily and the Prowler is also wider than the other MBT's - easier to hit.

    The TR MBT is basically an oversized and slow Lightening with a double cannon. What's the point of that?

    What was the Prowlers Original Concept?

    Visually the Prowler really looks like a breakthrough tank.
    It does not look fast. Those wide and massive tracks probably mean that it's very heavy. That exposed turret ring just looks stupid, I don't know who came up with that idea.
    The Prowler cannot fit in the role of a glass cannon
    For it to be a glass cannon it needs to be fast, but it cannot be fast because of how Low the hull is to the ground...it would need a redesign.
    This tank visually best fits the Breakthrough role also with the weapons it is equipped with.

    Terran Republic Lore

    TR's traits are said to be: Firepower, magazine size, speed. So if ppl do not like the Breakthrough Prowler idea, I got a second idea.

    TR -> "An authoritarian government that leverages military might to maintain strict control over the colonial citizens."
    The Terrain Republic should have the mightiest military production compared to all factions. Something I don't understand is why they have the standards, for example Sunderer which everybody has...That's not really showing military might lol.

    My second idea would be to rework the Prowler into a Sunderer, and give TR a new MBT.
    This Prowler will instead of the large cannons have a small 30mm auto cannon like a BMP2 has.
    Basically the Prowler in this situation would turn into a transport vehicle with no top gunner and armed with only a 30mm gun in the turret.

    • Up x 2
  2. Caesar_REDMIST

    I agree that TR MBT is a LOL. Unfortunately they will never change it, it is too late, game has been up for too many years, better to work on planetside 3
  3. Demigan

    Whats the point of the others having counters? Why asymetrical balance ofcourse! Its not like those counters instantly negate the Prowlers base DPS or ability DPS.

    As avid Lightning user I can also say that the Magrider cant just instantly boost away even from a Lightning (well in a few cases you can but usually both sides can simply move back into cover so thats mostly a mute point), and even when going up against the Vanguard a good Lightning user can use its size, speed and DPS to be a strong adversary.

    The Prowler happens to be the fastest MBT in the game, so why are you claiming its not fast? The combination of its speed and maneuverability allow it to rival and often even beat the Magrider in terms of getting around the battlefield.

    The Prowler is the blockiest, but also offers the middle-of-the-road hitbox from all sides.

    So to say the Prowler is just a glorified Lightning... no. The Prowler is a powerhouse in its own right. Its not the piece if wet tissuepaper you are presenting.

    The original Prowler concept is pretty good:

    That SPAAG variant looks good, the secondary gun near the top would be nice for all MBT's. The focus on ECM and passive stealth, stowable secondary turrets and a beautiful look for a burst-fire large auto-canon combined with the current Prowler's speed and maneuverability would make it a more beautiful tank.

    Naturally I'm assuming the other tanks get similar upgrades. Cant expect the Prowler to get stealth-like gameplay through whatever ECM abilities they add and the others to be left in the dirt.
    • Up x 1
  4. OneShadowWarrior

    It wasn’t a problem before until they nerfed everything to death, took away the benefits of anchor and to add insult to injury, made the rear of tanks to vulnerable.

    The Prowler is situational and sometimes I’ll get on a roll, but as soon as I get outflanked our out maneuvered it’s game over.

    Vanguard is the only tank I feel like it has any balls, but it was nothing like the first Planetside, now that was a real tank.

    The TR and VS tanks have always been subpar.
    • Up x 3
  5. Demigan

    Strange how the two sub-par tanks outperform the Vanguard...

    Also strange how the Vanguard, Lightning and Prowler can be screwed when properly outflanked. Its almost as if flanking is a powerful move in itself thats supposed to screw a tank over. I'm really starting to get worried about all the people proclaiming their tank suffers from something bad when their counterparts suffer from it too. Its like seeing complaints of "when a tank shoots me I get DAMAGE, it makes my tank the worst". Eh sure bub, you sure you ok?
    • Up x 3
  6. karlooo

    What do you think about both my suggestions?

    Lightening is the best tank in this game. It has almost everything what a tank should have.

    I would say it's more of a bastardized Lightening than glorified. Over more than double the size, therefor easy to hit, low HP, slow (I'll get to that in a moment), and 2 guns only complicates everything.

    I believe this is the max speed for a Vanguard and Prowler:
    Vanguard max speed = 72 kph
    Prowler max speed = 78 kph

    This is not what ppl expect from the so called fastest MBT. That's nearly equal speed.

    If it were a heavy / breakthrough tank, then this would be perfect, but its more off a glass cannon in PS2.
  7. Campagne

    It really helps the cause if you can numerically demonstrate your claims.

    I can see why one might argue the Lightning is the best tank in the game. If it's not it's the second best, in my opinion. But what does it have that the other three tanks don't? I suppose it has a short-ranged auto-cannon and an AA flak cannon as an extra weapon options but other than that it's missing a topgun, and 1000 extra HP, and any special abilities.

    Literally every MBT is more than double the size of a Lightning, so I don't see why that applies to a Prowler more than the other two. Furthermore the Prowler is the smallest of the three MBTs as is. It's also the fastest of the three. Having double the output complicates it? How do you figure that? It gives the Prowler a considerable DPS advantage and is much more forgiving for missed shots, as well as being the dramatically superior option for shelling infantry. (Which as we all know, is the primary purpose of an MBT. :p)

    This is not what ppl expect from the so called fastest MBT. That's nearly equal speed.[/quote]

    Is that not literally the fastest MBT? But regardless, these are the baselines which can be improved further and as well you're not taking acceleration into account. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not 100% on that, but the Prowler has the highest acceleration of the three as well and will spend the most time travelling at higher speeds. Inversely, the Vanguard has a very low acceleration and will almost never even reach the top speed without a long stretch of flat road.

    How can you call it a "glass cannon" when it has literally the same or better health with the exact same resistance values as the direct competition? The tank in any way stronger HP-wise is the Vanguard, which gets the health as a bonus to make up for how low its DPS is.
    • Up x 3
  8. karlooo

    The lightening is fast, extremely low (height of infantry), thin and has a great cannon. A great tank for both attacking and defending.
    This tank already has more than enough but it also gets more (common) abilities. What more could you ask?

    Prowler is the widest tank (In exchange of being more compressed, which does nothing to help this type of tank) but it does have the same height as the other MBT's. So you could say Prowler is the largest MBT because the front of the tank is what matters most.

    Firing both guns keeps the tank exposed for a longer duration and landing 2 shots in a row on a moving target is not easy. A turreted MBT with 2 cannons never exists for a reason.
    But as a breakthrough type of tank 2 cannons can make sense.

    The difference in speed between the Prowler and the other MBTs is nothing.

    Glass cannon: A unit with strong offensive power but weak defensive capabilities....That is what the prowler is.
    For the Magrider to be able to strafe to the sides with its front facing the target is a defensive capability.
  9. Demigan

    "Breakthrough tank" is vague and likely a bad concept. If the Prowler wins by "breakthrough", which is most likely just charging straight at the opposition, then the opposition will hate it as they have little options to stop a Prowler from starting a breakthrough and it would mean the Prowler would be undefeatable in CQC. If the Prowler fails in that do-or-die act then the user will feel his tanks primary purpose is crap.

    The "turn Prowler in a Sunderer and give new MBT to TR is weird. What good would a new Sunderer variant do? Would the NC and VS get one too? What kind of new MBT are you expecting the TR to ger? What minimum requirements does it need for your approval considering the Prowler is very good already?

    The same could be said to say the Magrider and Vanguard are "worse" tanks. But imagine a scenario where one faction got a literal MBT version of the Lightning. Wouldnt they be OP as hell?
    Now the Prowler is a Lightning that takes the disadvantage of a bigger frame and 100 extra nanite cost for the advantages of higher DPS, a faction ability, two shots to dial in range with a lower penalty for misses, 1000 extra health and a topgun of their choice. I'd say thats a pretty good deal.

    All MBT's are bigger, its HP is higher and I fail to see how two shots is a disadvantage especially with the higher average DPS.

    There's more to speed than just its maximum speed. The Prowler has the best acceleration and if you were to do large figure eights with a Prowler and Vanguard I would hazard a guess that the Vanguard would have less than 60% of the Prowler's average speed because the maneuverability difference. Add in having to stop and accelerate and the Prowler leaves the Vanguard in the dust. Ironically the Prowler already has the best chance to storm forwards and finish off an opponent behind cover (or second best in some situations against a Magrider)

    How is it a Glass canon? Its got the same health as a Magrider, what it lacks in dodgeability or extra health it makes up in DPS and being the fastest and most maneuverable. The Prowler is arguably the most jack-of-all-trades MBT, which is pretty much what the "main" in "main battle tank" stands for.
    • Up x 3
  10. Campagne

    Well the incredible DPS boost of an extra gunner for one thing. In a straight slug fest or in the open with no cover, or even against multiple enemies the lower heath is pretty unhelpful as well. A combat-oriented ability is also nice, beyond FS or smoke.

    It's still about as wide as a Magrider is though. To be fair they have the curving chassis at least, but a lot of hits come at the sides as the vehicle moves. The only tank that really wants to be facing forwards against an enemy is the Vanguard, which simply relies on soaking damage rather than avoiding it mostly.

    Against another tank only one shot will be fired regardless, so the extra 0.5s isn't a huge deal for the massive DPS advantage it provides. Maybe it's just me, but I don't find hitting tanks with a tank shell to be very difficult. They fly relatively fast towards a large target and have a very large hitbox compared to the rest of the projectiles one normally fires. With practise it becomes trivial.

    The difference between the three is that the Prowler is faster.

    That's the issue though, where does it suffer reduced defensive capabilities? It's got the same armour as all the other tanks and the same or greater health pool as all but one. It fulfills the cannon requirement through it's massive DPS and further DPS-boosting ability, but isn't lacking in defence. If it had less health or armour, or the Barrage ability reduced said armour when active or something it might be, but as it is it's just a cannon. It even has the highest speed so it's not metaphorically glass in the way a sitting duck is.
    • Up x 1
  11. MichaelMoen

    People like OP will claim the Prowler is a bad vehicle. I will come in and claim the Prowler is actually a very powerful vehicle and I lose to one all the time in my Vanguards. Others, (possible the OP as well) will just retort to me that I'm just bad and need to git gud.

    Pretty much why all I can do is just shut up and agree with the OP of these topics. I can say, even though I main NC 100% of the time, I have TR and VS alts just for testing out the other side's stuff in VR, and yes, the Prowler is gross good.
  12. karlooo

    Maybe you guys are right, but I still think there is something missing to the Prowler. The Prowler is not unusable, it's strong but there is a reason missing of why to take it out.

    I'll try to talk about these suggestions in more detail tomorrow or later, it's going to be fun.
  13. Peebuddy

    Like most things in this game they got it right the first time, in planetside 1 the prowler was unique because of the dual barrels and having two gunner seats. Give the prowler another top gun to fit the "more dakka" theme of the Tr, restrict it to like a kobalt or walker or something.

    On that subject I really do wish more vehicles could be crewed by more than just two people, atm we have the sunderer, gal, lib, and now the colossus who can have multiple crewmembers. I'd love some variants, like a harasser with a mana-turret on the back or a valk with side guns. Let's get a real battle bus, something with so many guns to rival those seen in mad max.
    • Up x 1
  14. MichaelMoen

    The Vanguard then needs it's Coaxial. The model still has it's two little stubs of where the guns should be. Turn them into a built in Basilisk or dual Kobalts to give the Driver their AI option.
  15. Liewec123

    hey OP, you spelt vanguard wrong.
    • Up x 1
  16. csvfr

    The Prowler can in turn just press F and double its damage output for 16 seconds, recountering the Vanguard with 8 seconds of boost left to boot. There is no denying that Vanguard is the worst tank. These are statistics from dasanfall, comparing the KD on AP turrets:
    • Supernova FPC - 7.78 ± 11.3819 Avg. KDR - 9.58 ± 12.0688 Avg. KDR-X
    • P2-120 AP - 7.37 ± 8.7629 Avg. KDR - 8.74 ± 9.021 Avg. KDR-X
    • Titan-150 AP - 6.23 ± 8.7282 Avg. KDR - 7.84 ± 9.4588 Avg. KDR-X
    These are statistics from voidwell, comparing vehicle kills per unique user:
    As can be seen, the Magrider is the best performing tank, with Vanguard being the worst, and Prowler in between
  17. karlooo

    But then this will make NC the militarily superior faction and it won't fit with their lore, if you know, TR doesn't get additions and changes as well.
    A one man MBT, means there will be more numbers on the battlefield, 2 types of guns allows it to combat both infantry and armor...I guess the downside could be that you shoot the auto cannons with right click, therefore it gets no optics.

    TR: "The Terran Republic (TR) is an empire with a rich history extending 1,112 years, and is the originator of the other two empires."
    "An authoritarian government that leverages military might to maintain strict control over the colonial citizens."
    "Their weapons and vehicles are top of the line and new but conventional. They eschew experimental ordinances and energy weapons and prefer to stick with what has worked for hundreds of years."

    NC: "Their methodology is to achieve victory by any means necessary and they are not afraid to use experimental weaponry, guerrilla tactics or unconventional warfare if the need arises."
    "Their equipment might not be the prettiest on the battlefield, but the New Conglomerate's philosophy is that, so long as a weapon shoots straight, it will get the job done. This means to the Freedom Fighters that there is an incredibly diverse range of weapons and gadgets to work with."

    I had this suggestion long time ago to switch TR's MBT with the NC one because I believe it fit with the Terrain Republic a bit better in terms of their story. It's a very lazy concept but it could be interesting together with your idea of adding the double auto cannon in the Vanguards turret (Firepower fits with TR) and my idea of changing the Prowler into a breakthrough tank type.

    To sum it up (It's not well written): The TR is supposed to have the most practical and newest weaponry. The Vanguard is a much more practical tank than the Prowler. If these tank designs got switched (not with their faction unique abilities) it wouldn't matter that much because the NC was basically part of the TR, it's ok for their designs to look similar.
    I believe NC's armored vehicles should be something similar to the T29 as an example put in there. It's an American heavy tank during WW2 designed to combat Tiger II's but It was rejected to be put in service because too heavy, new over-complicated design, expensive...unpractical just like a Prowler tank.
  18. Demigan





    • Up x 1
  19. csvfr

    I did not claim that the stats represent 'Anti-tank', such stats are not available regardless. The closest stats are Vehicle Kills per Unique User (the graph), reflecting the more general class 'Anti-vehicle' that necessarily contains 'Anti-tank', but Sunderer, Harasser and Flash kills also count towards this stat. KDR also includes infantry and air kills - or perhaps reflect only infantry kills - I dunno, the only thing which is for certain is that you can kill more enemies before dying the higher this stat is. This is what makes for the claim "Magrider is superior to Prowler, which is superior to Vanguard". Not only can you kill more enemies before dying in general, you can also kill more enemy vehicles.
    • Up x 1
  20. Crayv

    The Prowler is an odd tank, it's lockdown ability has no synergy with the other TR trait: Speed.

    Fastest MBT yet it has an ability that makes it so IT CAN"T MOVE, making this trait worthless. Also the trouble with that ability is, that at rank 1 you get the full downside of it and you don't get the full upside until it is completely certed. Other abilities basically have no downside and you just cert into it to make it stronger or use more often.

    The Prowler should have had a quad barrel with a bit of a delay between each shot. You get an ability that lets you fire all 4 like a rocklet alt fire.
    • Up x 2

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