Prowler 120 HE is broken/silly

Well people also cry their brains out on lockons. *shrug*

i'd just like to see it ingame and take it from there.

At the least, i'm all for improved ability for tanks to defend themselves against infantry. If it can be done without directly improving killing power.

The idea is interesting wether its balanced is ofcourse a different matter.

Concussive idea: the Prowler can refire its second shot .5 seconds later, if it hit on inner radius the first shell, it'll kill on the second and have an overall TTK of an infantry weapon. Why is this needed? What does this add to the game other than victim frustration? Making the best equipped farming tank even more EZ mode?

Thread: If the Prowler HE inner splash kills in one shell it's massively OP by design, if the Prowler HE inner splash kills in two shells it's still more or less balanced considering Mag/Van still 2 shot HE inner splash most times, but with a refire time of 4.75s. The exception to this is high levels of Flak armor, which the Prowler will require 3 HE inner blast radius shots while the Mag/Van require only 2, but all things considered the overall TTK here is almost exactly the same. due to the faster reload of the Prowler HE shells.

How exactly does adding a concussive effect to Prowler shells NOT directly improve its killing power? Are you suggesting that being unable to move for several seconds makes you harder to kill?

Like I said, this is honestly one of the worst ideas I've ever seen suggested on these forums. You even suggest its unbalanced in your reply above, but your theory appears to be "just throw it in the game and we'll work out the balance from there".

/facepalm

Its an interesting synergy. The ppa kills all the wounded. I still feel HE is pretty bad but this is a very creative way to play to its strengths.

The reload speed is very killer on a anti infantry weapon. Im actually thinking about certing reload speed for the lightning HE. Its useful in a minority of situations but it is pretty epic in those few. Mostly amp stations and tech plants.

I think the HE inner radius of Mag/Van should be raised to 1250 to negate Nanoweave armor, because why should a bullet armor save you from explosives meant to kill people who aren't wearing Flak armor? That's the only thing wrong with HE shells, other than that, they're fine basically on all fronts. If this were done then maybe I could see raising the Prowler inner radius damage a slight bit (but still under 1000) but it may even remain balanced as it is (Prowler is by far the highest scoring MBT).

Yeah, but this game is hardly competitive in the typical sense.

"Skill" is thrown around a lot here but often times people just mean "KDR" which is useless and can be easily padded in a variety of ways that have little to do with playing to the objective of the game.

Case in point, my outfit helped win an alert at the last minute by going to defend a base that was being assaulted. All we had to do was keep them from flipping it for 2 minutes or so.

Solution: zombie medics.

How much "skill" is there involved in that? None really, strategy you could argue but skill, no at least not in the traditional sense.

Same thing goes for a lot of other aspects of the game.

Skill is just what people like to throw around because it makes them feel better. Not to say that someone who is "pro" will not tend to do better at certain things than some other person who is not, just that that person being "pro" often has little impact on the overall game.

In some ways this is good because it allows the game to be casual but other times it can be annoying because it comes along with rampant spam and the existence of cheese.

You can't really compare a tank weapon vs a grenade weapon.

You can take out entire squads with a tank, or hold down an entire area... something you cannot do with a grenade. The Prowler, nor the Vanguard, nor the Magrider need any buffs... if anything, they need a small nerf against infantry.

The ammo capacity of the tank make up for the lack of ammo capacity of a grenade; plus, tank shells are far more accurate than grenades as well.

it is indeed, altough the value for it is so low it's negligibile to call it a frustrating feature as once

I can't believe people actually think tanks need a nerf against infantry, lol....................................

First chill out.

Second When I say not improve killing power, then I say it won't kill them off immedietly. nor does it make a tank alot better at actively hunting infantry since afterall you'd still have to hit directly next to them for the effect to be trigered. It could mean vanguards and the like would be less punished by their refire timer.

When I say maybe strong I mean by no means do I think right now that a shot that misses by 0,5-1m reducing your movement speed by X,% and turn rate by X% for 1-2seconds (maybe less). is in it self op. but it would have ot be seen in a real combat setting to see impact.

Maybe I should elaborate I think the concept itself is interesting, it can be tuned down some. and balanced against damage. alot of changes could be made. But it is an ingame mechanic that could be tuned around shells, forexample like earlier to make HE less bad on a vanguard? have it have less of a concussion effect on a prowler. Etc.

I left alot unsaid to be sure. I just didn't expect someone to take offense at my words so sorry about that.

Firstly, I am chilled I just strongly disagree with you.

Have you actually stopped to consider the effect of concussive tank rounds on infantry combat in a game where vehicle spam is excessive already?

Infantry would be concussed incessantly....... non-stop. They would be free kills to any and all opposition players in the vicinity. Spamming tank rounds through windows onto points is already game-breaking, and now you want to add a concussive effect as well? Lol.

I'm sorry, but this idea was and still is awful. It would completely alter and break infantry combat.

The only impressive thing about HE is its fake description.
Even a frag grenade is more effective...

a few strikers can fend of entire hordes of tanks, so here you have a few infantry able to destroy entire squads of tanks. This is the pillar of the tankers counter argument. If a few squishies can completely area-denial us, or, in the case of TR, completely annihilate us, then why can't we have a decent AI weapon?

Accuracy of a striker/pheonix/lancer vs a cannon?
The fact that the tank cost 450 resources and had to drive all the way to the point vs an infantry that can instantly respawn right where he was?
Infantry can be instantly rezzed on the spot in < 3 seconds. Tanks are lucky if they have the resources to continue at all after death.
Infantry can go anywhere, tanks are useful in a limited number of areas.

Why the nerf now?

The reason I advocate for better AI weapons for tanks is so tanks actually go anti-infantry, so that I can feel useful again when I blow them up. Currently the tank vs tank combat has hardly any weight on the infantry battles for the points. All tanks are AV. the closeest thing to an AI tank anyone pulls is a HEAT cannon. Meanwhile infantry are pretty much the greatest threats to tanks anyway. not a lone rambo heavy, but any half-intelligent squad should be able to deal with enemy armor with swiftness.

The way I handle it is by completely avoiding infantry for the most part. Their are expections like killing sundys, and farming spawn points, but I think in general most tank drivers feel a disconnect between what they do and the actual objective of the game. Most tankers who are in a productive squad will find themselves more useful if they just jump out and spam UBGL everywhere.
Unlimited ammo.
1 hit kill.
firing from cover.
can go anywhere.
UBGL FTW :-D

I never claimed I have "skill" in the game, but if you mean that I'm successful more often than not, well, that's true.

It's due to knowing my personal limitations, the limitations of the weapon system I'm using and the way those limitations are affected by the game physics. The reason I'm successful usually means the person I'm fighting against is simply "less successful" in his/her use of tactics (many times egregiously so). Quite possibly because they're unused to the realities of the game and haven't come to terms with the way the game physics influence play.

Or worse, REFUSE to adapt to the realities presented to them and instead, beat their heads against the wall over and over again to my overall benefit.

What sense does it make to complain, "I die constantly when I do this"... well, don't do that would be my response.

High KDR's are the result of a thorough knowledge of the game physics in combination with your enemies stubborn refusal to adapt or, hacking. The former is the only real "skill" involved.

While in the right circumstances a tank can roll over infantry squads (I do it regularly)... generally, tanks are not one man killing platforms. Ideally, they should be supporting infantry rushes. In Planetside... you don't roll your tank ahead of your soldiers, you sit behind your soldiers and roll up with them taking out threats while they hit the softies. As for lock ons, I don't fear the Striker in my Vanguard any more than I fear the Annihilator in my Prowler... it's a matter of perspective, placement, and approach. If someone is locking onto you... whether Striker or Annihilator... you have time to spot them and blow them to pieces even before they get a chance to launch a missile. With weapons like the Lancer and Phoenix, you don't get that opportunity... I know when I use the Lancer or Phoenix against tanks, I don't give them the opportunity, anyway.

Tanks have incredible power and force on the Planetside battlefield and give a squad battlefield advantage... you just need to know how to use it, aside from just blindly driving into combat or up a road and expecting to live. Know where your enemy is before you roll and expect them to be where they are not and use terrain to your vehicle's advantage.

Also, I can't tell you how many times I've been able to sneak past enemy lines into further most bases, hack terminals, switch to an engineer, grab a tank, and massacre from the flanks. Surprise! tanks are the best tanks, even if their lifespan is only 10 or 15 minutes... they usually distract the main fighting force long enough for your allies to take root.

Go AP and learn to aim.

My apologies, I was not trying to criticize you or question your skill but I can see how it came off that way.

I was just trying to use some of your comments as a jumping off point and probably should have worded things better.

Cheers.

Just got my auraxium in lightning AP :-D

Dang right this advice currently

The last time I had an HE gun on a tank and thought it was useful was when shooting LA's attacking friendly sunderers. I could fire at the bus and not worry about damaging it much.

I totally agree. I just think thats proper, but a nerf is crazy talk.