Proposed MBT Changes:

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Alarox, Jun 7, 2014.

  1. Alarox

    Would you care to elaborate more?

    Are you talking about the "skill" it takes to shoot over terrain? Because if so, even at the highest level the randomness involved mitigates the influence of skill. If I have to time my shots in between bumps, and there's still a 50% (or so) chance of the tank bobbing up/down the moment I fire, then skill isn't a huge benefit in these cases.

    What do you think of third person shooting?
  2. MarkAntony

    I disagree. Having an unstabilized turret doesn't increase the skill ceiling whatsoever. It just makes shooting on the move in anything but flat terrain impossible.(excluding abusing 3rd person) And they are not giving us a ballistics computer.
    This opens up all parts of the map for more effective tanking.And by that I am talking about anything that isn't the north half of indar.
    • Up x 2
  3. Sebastien

    Skill as in waiting for the right time to shoot when moving over bumpy terrain or the twitch required to compensate for when you move over uneven terrain.
    Skill as in Juking when you come to a halt to shoot accurately.

    I like to believe tanks require more thinking than other aspects of the game because TTK isn't measured in milliseconds, or reliant on who has the best aim.

    I shoot in 3rd when I'm chasing someone.

    Maybe I dislike the idea of stabilized guns because I think it's ridiculous to see tanks weaving in and out of terrain shooting each other like an episode of GuP.

    I made the ballistics computer point, because it takes away the human element and replaces it with a computer that doesn't make mistakes.
    One of the great things about having raw input rather than computer assistance, is that through practise you'll become good.
  4. MarkAntony

    Shooting on the move currently is not based on skill. It's based on luck. There is now twitch aim required to hit stuff when moving over bumpy terrain. It's purely based on luck. Do I hit another bump that throws of my aim the moment I shoot or not?
    You'll still need practise when shooting on the move. But now skill might actually be the decisive factor.

    PS. Girls und Panzer actually depicted what happens when you shoot on the move with an unstabilized turret pretty well. You miss. A lot.
    • Up x 1
  5. Sebastien

    Adding stabilised guns will remove shooting skill entirely as a factor when moving.

    They missed a lot when completely still as well so that's a moot point.
  6. MarkAntony

    Oh so a stabilized turret means the gun will shoot itself with perfect accuracy? I'll still have to compansate for drop and travel time. And with this for the movement of enemy tanks. And the movement of my own tank. The only thing that a stabilized turret removes is the luck component. Right now it has nothing to do with skill.
  7. Sebastien

    Yeah pretty much. It'll feel like shooting from a stand still because the only thing you'll have to compensate for is drop and your opponents movement.
    Your vector has nothing to do with the vector of the projectile because it isn't affected. So once again, you'll be shooting effectively from a standstill.
  8. Alarox

    So if I'm trying to hit a moving Magrider from 500m away while he is strafing and I am moving full speed, there is no skill involved? If I'm trying to shoot a hovering ESF from 750m away who is hovering while I am moving full speed, there is no skill involved? If I'm trying to take the head of off a HA from 150m who is playing peek-a-boo while I am moving at full speed, there is no skill involved?

    All of these are harder while moving. If I am gunning an Enforcer, it is still much harder to hit while moving compared to being stationary. Why? Because you still have to adjust for your own movement. The weapon doesn't lock-on to targets, it only maintains the current elevation. You still have to adjust to your vehicle's angle shifting and the constant horizontal change from moving. I've got plenty of experience using both stabilized and non-stabilized weapons to back this up.
    • Up x 2
  9. Sebastien

    This isn't going anywhere.
    I doubt I'll use the stabilised turret for anything.
  10. Alarox

    So you will just refuse to shoot while moving? Or will you just not move?
  11. Sebastien

    I'll do what's required to win. Which is usually bullying people into submission from PB.
    The reason I'll continue shooting from 3rd person while moving is because I'll have a larger FoV, but first person shooting will probably remain untouched.
  12. FourTwoFour

    Tanks in any game out there should have a stabilized turret. Right now it's impossible to hit anything on the move with a Vanguard/Prowler if you hit anything bumpy or if your turret moves at all because of whatever is under you (not flat ground). It's even worse for a Prowler where you need to hit the target with 2 shells...

    They should buff the Magrider after giving us this tho. And do NOT nerf the velocity as I've said multiple times (and so have the other 200 people here and on reddit another 500)

    Buff the Magrider velocity. A LOT. If we're all going to be mobile more often that means we need INCREASED VELOCITY, not nerfed. SOE, you impress me sometimes....

    Just because you decided to give the tanks something that they should have had on day one anyway, that doesn't mean you need/must NERF something else. You're doing it wrong.

    How about you give us back the old Anchored Mode with 60% velocity, keep the resistance for the tank shells against the Libs, buff the Vanguard/Magrider velocity? No one is interested in close combat tank fights. We all know the Vanguard will faceroll everyone there.
    • Up x 1
  13. stalkish

    I realy wish theyd stop changing the game every week.
    What was the problem with long range tank fighting?
    Im wondering what anchor prowlers are now for if they dont want long range fights.....

    This is typical of SOEs logic.
    first they create tanks that are man handled and beat up by infantry....:confused:
    they create the fastest tank in the game and give it an anchor down ability increasing its range but making it stationary, and then on top of that giv it a super close range AV secondary......o_O
    they create a CQC tank that is tough, slow and not very maneuverable, then remove its ability to tank damage and duke it out in CQC....o_O
    they create a floating tank that is highly maneuverable (compared to other MBTs) see it is underperforming (after nerfs and buffs and nerfs and buffs) and decide in order to bring it in line they should give its strenghts to the other tanks.......o_O

    ***Golf clap SOE, well played.

    [this is not even mentioning the wealth of other ridiculous decisions that have been made regarding balance]
    • Up x 1
  14. dedgaem

    now for real, this is what happens when you put a Chef in the place of lead game designer... or your son, with no skills at all.
  15. Phrygen

    Maybe it is impossible for you, but it is not impossible for people who are higher skilled and experienced doing so. Thus a skill difference will be removed.

    You basically proved yourself wrong.

    I practiced and practiced and I became proficient at hitting targets on the move at range. It is not impossible. For the people in this thread saying it is impossible, you are wrong. You simply aren't proficient enough to do it.
  16. MajiinBuu

    Give HE a gravity of 10, than we can have mortars
  17. Schwak

    Prowler is being further reduced into the complete dog **** category.
  18. Redderic

    I find the changes to MBTs on the eve of the PS4 release concerning. The sum of these changes will alter the dynamics of the game, and not for the better. It feels like we're shifting to appeal to the lowest common denominator where the differences between MBTs slowly becomes fewer and we are left with copies of the same vehicle with very minimal differences. Tanks are being redefined and the focus of combat is being forced closer, ultimately constraining the limits of viable gameplay options when driving a tank.

    While the Liberator will now be more vulnerable to tank shells, hitting these vehicles will be more difficult. Hitting an ESF or Liberator was hard enough in a Mag with the current velocity and gravity, it will only get harder now. The bitter sweet irony is that Prowlers and Vanguards will now also have some additional difficulty hitting aircraft, but that now Mags will be even worse at it than before. My bias is showing, but it remains a valid point.

    While stability changes aren't entirely bad, it too changes the dynamics of the game. A moderately skilled Prowler or Vanguard driver needed to stop to fire, while skilled drivers could do so on the move. This constraint created an environment where Mags had a meaningful advantage, while affording a key difference in skill levels between moderate and high skilled drivers. Further, the increased damage and mitigation by other tanks encouraged the Mag to be as mobile as possible, firing on the move out of necessity to remain viable. A stationary Mag is a dead Mag. A slow Mag is a dead Mag. This same logic does not necessarily apply to the othr tanks. With the changes to stabilisation and speed, the Mag loses the only advantage it had left.

    SOE can do one of two things. Appeal to the lowest common denominator and go through with these changes while slightly buffing the Magrider's mitigation and damage potential, thereby creating an uninteresting vehicle in line with the others. Or, they can forgo these changes and give each vehicle asymmetric strengths that are equal in different ways.
  19. Copasetic

    The tank round changes aren't the end of the world. It's not going to suddenly destroy long range combat.

    On the other hand stabilized turrets and the acceleration changes are going to massively change tank encounters. I think SOE should give it a couple weeks before they make any direct buffs or nerfs to individual tanks because nobody really knows how these changes are going to affect the big picture.

    No man. The only drivers who could fire on the move did it in 3rd person, which gave a stabilized turret but removed the aiming reticule. Those drivers would usually tape a crosshair to their monitor. In 1st person you can't hit reliably while moving, regardless of how good you are nobody can compensate for random jerky movements like that. It's physically impossible and twice as impossible for the Prowler.

    So lets just cut out the hack and make maneuvering a standard part of tank combat.
  20. MrNature72

    RIP vanguard.