[BUG] Projectiles do not inherit the velocity of whatever fires them

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by drhead, Jun 30, 2014.

  1. drhead

    I've always noticed something wrong with the projectiles in Planetside 2. Whenever you fire a projectile from a vehicle moving at a constant velocity, the projectile (from your perspective) should appear to move in the same way that it would if you were to fire it while remaining stationary, since the projectile is starting with your velocity and is only having velocity added by whatever it is fired by (whether your weapons of choice are powered by gunpowder, electromagnets, or science and lasers). Instead, projectiles simply move as if the firing vehicle was stationary at the time of firing.

    To illustrate what is wrong and what should happen instead: Suppose you have a perfectly straight railroad track that goes through a tunnel. You have a cart on the railroad track which you keep moving at a constant velocity. On this cart, there is a very well-built cannon that is aimed straight up. There is currently no wind. You fire the cannon before going into the tunnel. In the real world, the cannonball would actually land right inside the cannon on the other side of the tunnel (assuming you were moving fast enough to get through the tunnel). In Planetside 2, the cannonball would land where the cart was when the cannon was fired, if it wasn't annihilated by going too high in the sky.

    Fixing this bug (or inconsistency with the normal laws of physics, if you prefer) would have different implications for different sides of the combined-arms game. This would mostly influence vehicles, and it is safe to assume that infantry would notice almost no difference at all, aside from special cases such as firing while in midair because of a jump pad.

    Aircraft would surely benefit, since target leading would make sense, and rocket pods wouldn't appear to move slower in front of you due to your speed (currently, the max afterburner speed with the speed frame permits you to go 95 m/s, making rockets appear to move at 155 m/s away from you). One weapon with a more pronounced effect is the Coyote Missiles - with a muzzle velocity of 150 m/s, they appear to have one third of their speed when flying as fast as possible. When you fire the Hornet Missiles (velocity 125 m/s), they move so slow when flying at max speed that you can actually look at the missiles and admire their detail while watching them move only 30 m/s faster than you. Honestly, this bug was weird enough with the traditional lolpods, and with the new NS rocket pods, it's just ridiculous.

    Tanks might have a harder time re-adjusting, since (as a frequent tank driver), I lead my shots by firing when my crosshair is just above my target (during my Magrider ADADAD strafe). Under a system that follows the normal laws of physics, I would have to treat my target the same as if the world around me were moving instead of me. This might change things a lot for Magrider pilots. On the other hand, Harassers, which do a lot of firing while moving at a constant velocity and also a lot of firing while accelerating, aiming will become very interesting. In any case, the effect on tanks will be less extreme than the effect on aircraft, since even the Harasser can only move at 34 m/s with its slowest weapon (the Bulldog) moving at 100 m/s out of the barrel. On the bright side, you would only have to learn projectile leading for one speed.

    TL;DR: Projectiles can't physics, and if I'm moving fast enough hornet missiles move only slightly faster than my aircraft when they should be going at my velocity PLUS their muzzle velocity. Fix pls.
    • Up x 2
  2. isaidhi3

    This is not a bug. Yes, this is what would happen in real life, but if projectiles inherited shooter velocity, some weapons in this game would be just way too hard to aim.
  3. cruczi

    Why would they be too hard to aim? I think they'd be easier to aim, because they'd behave in a way that you'd intuitively expect them to behave, like the Hornet missile example given above.
    • Up x 2
  4. Alarox

    It would certainly be harder to aim. Like if I'm strafing in my Vanguard, now all my shots are missing left/right and I constantly have to adjust. And if I'm driving forward at full speed, that is ~20m/s more velocity which will mean I need to lead less to the front, and more to the back.

    Eventually I would master this, but it just creates an even larger gap between new and experienced players without really adding much beyond an additional layer of frustration.

    I kind of like the idea, but at the same time I don't think it would be that great for the game.
    • Up x 1
  5. Obstruction

    projectiles can't physics because the servers can't math. sorry.
  6. Emotitron

    Inheriting velocity has always been a problem for online gaming. It becomes very hard to hide the man behind the curtain (the latency) when things move at unpredictable speeds.

    Also, in a simple system, you are running and fire a rocket... all that needs to be communicated was your location and the direction in which you fired.

    If you inherit motion you now have to transmit the origin, the direction AND the initial speed.

    Along with creating 50% more data to track with each round fired in the game (and there are a ton), you now create all kinds of visual/sync anomalies that will become more apparent with latency issues. People could get used to it, but I doubt the game makers would take on this task considering the drawbacks exceed the benefits. It would most definitely make shooting weapons from vehicles way more difficult.

    BTW, this has come up before.
  7. Pikachu

    Is there any game where projectiles inherit velocity from their origin? o_O I have never heard of it. If it was implemented it could lead to annoying fighting styles because people try to use it to their advantage, most noticeably when flying. Those who don't would be at a disadvantage. Video games have such low velocities for weapons that it could have noticeable effect.
  8. lawn gnome

    while it would be nice to have more realistic projectiles, it would also add a lot of work load to the servers for very little benefit.

    Really it doesn't matter as the player will learn to adapt to either way.
  10. MorteDeAmgelis

    Projectile in real life move much faster then what they are in-game.

    Tank Velocities are much more like 1400m/s rather then a max of 275m/s.
    Also, a Projectile cannot keep the inertia of another object for eternity, unless there is 0 resistance of any form (like in Space).

    Even with your example of no wind, this is still wind resistance. The Wind Resistance will slow down the cannonball meaning that you in-turn will have to slow down in order to "catch" the cannonball in your cannon. While you can remain a constant speed while travelling the cannonball cannot as it does not have any movement of its own and must rely on external forces to move / slowdown.

    I wonder why you said "if you were moving fast enough". You already said that you are moving at a constant speed so it doesn't matter what speed you are going. You aren't gona catch the cannon ball by moving any faster unless you mean for the cannonball to clear the tunnel. Then again, the tunnel servers no actual purpose in the example other then as a Static object that could potentially get in the way without actually adding anything to the point you were making.

    Even you are are moving at 1500m/s and you shoot something like a rocket that has a max speed for 1000m/s then that rocket will slow down pretty quick as the resistance of the wind pushing against it will slow down its speed and the rockets engine will not be able to push the rocket going that fast. Therefore the rocket will look like its going backwards when its not. You are just going faster.

    What you actually see to me is more correct then what you think you will see. Inertia of a object when moving a direction it is already going to move via its own force doesn't actually do all that much because of resistance going the opposite direction and your Inertia is only affecting the object when you are both physically connected in some way.

    Your example with the Rockets. You are going slower then the Rockets Max Speed by 30m/s. That means that Rocket Cannot go ANY FASTER then 30m/s more then you are currently going. All your inertia does is make it hits its max speed faster cause it only has to increase 30m/s rather then the 150m/s (assuming your ESFs speed is 120m/s) it will not make the Rocket go any faster because there are still resistances on the rockets pushing it backwards which the rockets engine cannot overcome (the faster you go the more resistance you get).

    The reason it looks like your rockets are going slower is because you are going faster, the Rockets are going as fast as they can go, whatever speed you are going when the Rocket is in-flight does not affect the Rocket at all as you are both no longer connected.

    Moving backwards in a Tank doesn't make the shell move any slower just like moving forward doesn't make the shell move any faster. Moving sideways however would effect it because its now moving a direction it doesn't normally, but it won't move as far as you think it would be again. Wind resistance would slow it down and the shell doesn't have any force acting against it to counteract that resistance. Otherwise a shell would move at a constant speed much like a rocket =P
  11. nightbird

    Projectiles do inherit momentum irl of course, due to physics. However it is hard to program and you don't want this game to be even more CPU intensive than it is now do you? (adding true physics for bullets and vehicles would reduce fps by 90%)
  12. repinSniper

    Tribes Ascend, and damn, it's hard to hit **** when everything is flying around at high velocities.
  13. GaBeRock

    Velocity-inheritance would just make things harder, except in a few specific circumstances (*cough* hornets *cough*)
  14. GaBeRock

    Trust me when I say we're fighting in space. One of my favorite ESF party tricks is hovering stock still upside down by pressing control and pitching to -20.
  15. Cindil

    Just to be clear, only a few weapons have full inheritance and I think they specify it in their descriptions.

    Most projectile weapons have this awful percentage inheritance forward-facing-velocity-boosted hacked nonsense.

    That game had such potential. ******* Hi-Rez.
    • Up x 1
  16. Roland2TowerCame

    You could hit things hiding behind rocks if it were implemented.
  17. Village

    Arma 3
  18. danielpxp

    Right now with the projectiles coming from the camera not the weapon itself (which was changed a year ago.. sadly..) you can actually hit things hiding yourself behind a rock.
  19. Souleater

    Our tank shells are made of pixels, which are light. So according to Einstein what you are seeing is just part of the odd behavior of light. :D
  20. come1l

    So we would be able to achieve this? [IMG]