[Suggestion] Problem with C4 spam

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Marik, Jan 3, 2020.

  1. Exileant

    :confused: I cannot agree with this last part, It is fairly easy to defend an Tank if you have the right passenger even against a Hornet hound. While half the time I can run them off or even kill them myself if I see them coming, ;) all you need is either a fellow engineer to swiftly hop out and start healing using all available means, while you man the A.A. turret; or have a heavy to pop out and lock while you man the A.A. Turret. :D This ends their day with a bang.
  2. DDaly

    Makes complete sense to me
  3. Truk

    Translation: "I am a C4 fairy and I don't want my favorite toy nerfed, even if it ruins the game for everyone else?"
  4. Demigan

    Translation: "i am a vehicle farmer and I dont want my favorite toy destroyed due to my own failures, even if it would ruin the game more for anyone else if we removed the only real counter".
    • Up x 2
  5. JobiWan

    Check my stats. I have hardly any time playing light assault. So you're totally wrong. What I really mean is what I said, I simply don't see fights ruined by C4 spam.
  6. Trigga

    As a regular opponent of his i can confirm, JobiWan is not an LA c4 main.
    Ive spent a lot of time in a tank, a lot, and i dont think id need 2 hands to count the amount of times he has tried to c4 me, in over 5 years.

    Me on the other hand, C4ing clusters of infantry from the trees above any Hossin base is bliss.
    LA C4 is like the finger of god, and its awesome.
    I take full advantage of it.
    • Up x 1
  7. Bullwinkle 01

    Cut the damage in half or only let players carry one brick. Problem solved, the C4 is no longer a vehicle instakill. There is no other weapon or device carried by a player that can kill an armored vehicle with one shot (I know it takes two bricks, but you can drop them so fast it's essentially a single action), and c4 shouldn't either.
  8. Demigan

    Yes. AV mines, which have at least for the first few years of PS2 killed as many vehicles as C4 but require less skill and risk to use, have never existed!

    Also lets remove the only tool that can effectively kill vehicles before they can get away, but only in the case of the c4 fairy remaining unnoticed until he launches the attack and then hoping his target doesnt notice or doesnt have the space to simply drive away/kill him anyway. That will be balanced and fun for sure! There's no middle ground here ladies and gentlemen! No way to make it more enjoyable for both parties at the same time! Nope! We can only screw an entire player group over! /S
  9. Bullwinkle 01

    I regularly kill all kinds of vehicles with my engineer AV turret "before they can get away" -- it takes several hits and most of them are already on the move. I rarely carry AV mines because they are unreliable and a PITA to use.

    Cry me a freakin' river.
  10. Demigan

    With 100% hits and the highest certs spend it takes 22,5 seconds to kill an MBT from the front/side (taking the wiki at face value). At a lousy 20km/h (reverse speed) a vehicle could get 125m far in that time. Its hard to find an area where you have both 125m free to drive and not cut vision to an AV turret firing on them. That is ignoring the fact that it has 304m range and the vehicle just drove more than 1/3rd of its maximum range and within the first 100m would have a good shot at you. There's also to consider that most players will hang around cover anyway so we are talking about you stealing kills or supporting others with your turret. That or everyome you shoot becomes a dumb brick that cant find the W key. So I believe that you are just embellishing your experience to use as an argument.

    Also such feats will be checked. I'm assuming this is you: https://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=bullwinkle&show=weapons
    And you have 109 vehicle kills, with 3900 shots fired. I have 1/4rth of your shots (1000) and already 61 kills, so if we kept playing I would do better with the AV turret against vehicles and it is a crappy AV weapon. So how could you say its good if you do worse than me? Ah right because the embellishing the truth for your own purposes thing.

    The fact that you find AV mines unreliable is likely more a testament of your lack of skill with placing them (which is an achievement in itself). Also if they are unreliable but still score similar to C4 then doesnt that mean AV mines are even more powerful but held back by unreliablility?

    Dont lie just to get what you want. Also before you continue with your side of the tirade read some of the idea's I had for changing C4, adding resource-costing alternatives and also upgrading tanks that can be found in this very thread if I'm not mistaken. Because I'm not in the black-or-white camps of either remove it or keep it, I'm all for change for the better of the game through balanced changes on both sides.
  11. Onical

    in a game about deterrence or group play the LA (and a argument could be made for liberators but at least that 2 people) are the only thing that can reliably kill things alone.

    lighting as 4k hp prowler/magrider 5k vanguard 6k and sunderer 8.2k (if i am not mistaken)

    deci does 1k annili does 650 but locks on.i believe crossbow with explosive rounds do 250? anti tank turret from engineer does 1307? (i remember it being a funny number and can be hard to use as once enemies realize your using it they tend to aim for you first) archer does 240?

    infantry is rarely alone and most classes have access to some of those weapons. all you need to do is about 25% dmg to make a veicle run away. and that easy to do with 2-3 HA/engineer.

    but like air deterrence can become deadly with a few more people. 4-5 HA/engineer(ammo + extra damage from anti tank turret/archer and threat of landmines and you could kit HA to be even more anti tank focus then just it RPG) and a veicle being focused by that group would have little hope of escaping unless it just turned a corner.

    then you have LA all it needs to do is be around any veicle for 2 seconds and it dead. a single guy playing the infantry flanking class with excellent mobility can take out any land veicle solo more reliably and easier then the class that is built around the job(HA). it a better deterrence as most experience land veicle users will avoid going near walls/cliffs in fear that one may or may not be around. this means that LA is such a good deterrence that it does not even need to play LA to deter enemy veicles.

    and if your having issues with 1-2 tanks causing damage to infantry there probably HE/anti infantry build and your own armor should have little issue dealing with them in anti tank config.

    a case could be made that when it 90+ people vs 90+ people and the pop is 33% defenders 66% attackers that the attackers having 5-6 armor/aircraft around make it impossible for defenders to do much. and you would be correct. the maps have been changed over time to give the attacker equal grounds or a advantage by design (to prevent ps2 launch issues where certain places where easy to defend and seiges lasted hours). so trow on top numerical superiority and it incredibly hard for defenders to win. just look at the crown and how many times that place got reworked.
  12. Onical

    why are you the only person trying to take on a MBT by yourself? the advantage infantry as is generally numbers/flexability and the ability to abuse cover. but let say you are alone. all you need to do is land 2 hit to make it run away. and you successfully pushed back a tank. good job.

    AV mines are interesting part of it effectiveness probably comes from people mining in front of terminals and people not checking before spawning stuff or being used like c4 by engineer. but properly using them in likely roads/chockepoints feels fair to the receiver. they fell for it. unlike c4 fairies.
  13. Demigan

    Besides that you overhype the LA's c4 abilities by making it seem like he magically teleports on top and simple tactics like movement, spitfires or a little amount of situational awareness can protect you from most attacks, you are making an excellent case as to why infantry should have better AV weapons!
    Infantry AV being deterrents? It taking 2 to 3 people just to get a vehicle to 25% so they flee? Just the "fact" that you think they flee after 25% damage is laughably wrong. Or the fact that 2-3 people are whipped up and ready with AV in an instsnt. Or the fact that vehicles dictate most of the fight with their better range, better firepower, better resiliance, lower skill requirements, and pretty much better everything, advocates having a better relation between infantry and tanks. Not having infantry AV being deterrents for example and giving them more weapons that can kill.
    • Up x 2
  14. Onical

    it depends on how many infantry is in the area but generally about 1.5k dmg is enought to make a MBT run away unless it willing to suicide to kill something or if there engineers around fixing them. so yea 25-33% dmg is all you really need depending on the situation from my experience as a gunner/driver or time playing as HA/engineer.
    once a tanks get hits a few time people tend to focus it especially if it starts to smoke. so starting to run away early is the best way of not dieing

    and your right a more experience driver will avoid getting to close to where LA can come from. and will have him/his gunner constantly keeping a eye out for potential LA. and you can't blame them it there number 1 cause of death even with all there preventative measures they may take.

    the auto turret requires you to get out and potentially get snipped and is nothing but a warning alarm. it takes 2-3 seconds to even start shooting and it sucks overall.
  15. Demigan

    The thing is that just like infantry not being alone, tanks arent alone either. Tanks often also have infantry somewhere nearby, and/or friendly vehicles. On top of that vehicles have a lower skill requirement to operate, have more firepower, more range, more sustainability, more resistances, better survivability, better speed and overall maneuverability. And all that because they operated a terminal!

    Ofcourse you would mention that you could pull a vehicle yourself. Except often you cant because the enemy will be camping the vehicle spawn and pulling from somewhere else is rarely a guarantee for success unless you can find the time to gather a local superiority force. And AV-oriented vehicles will gladly and effectively go farm infantry once all enemy vehicles are cleared. And on top of that the AI-oriented vehicles have been upgraded to not be behind in DPS but have a small disadvantage in mechanical shooting against other vehicles so thats not much of an easy target for the average player as you make it out to be most of the time.

    So, with the extra perspectivr, would you still stay with your arguments? Ofcourse you would because this is the internet and you'll simply ignore things like facts.
  16. Demigan

    Your experience is horribly skewed and does not reflect reality in any way, shape or form.

    And an experienced vehicle player will not avoid the place a c4 fairy comes from because that makes no sense, its a C4 fairy, it'll be coming to you as long as you are a threat to the base so unless you leave the base in its entirely you cant avoid the C4 gairy. Its like saying you can avoid HA rockets by avoiding the spawnroom and then sticking to the other end of the base yo stay safe.
    What does make sense is knowing where it comes from, knowing where your allies are and knowing the remaining routes the LA can take (and since he still needs something between you and him as he closes the distance you can find out the remaining routes despite LA's being able to climb obstacles), then just checking the places an LA needs to reveal himself as he approaches and getting practically free kills from them until the cr fairies give up. And thats ignoring the options like moving from time to time (forces c4 fairies to take longer getting to you and increases chance of failed attempts), using nearby allied infantry for protection (they are more vulnerable and will check their surroundings better than you), using proxy radars, using spitfires stragetically placed to force the C4 fairy to shoot it first etc.
  17. Onical

    your correct our opinion differs greatly on the matter and i doubt we will ever come to agree on the subject.

    as for the you can pull a veicle yourself. your right do to the bases being designed to give the attacker the advantage it can be difficult to pull your own armor at a base under seige especially if the enemy as numerical superiority.

    as for anti infantry weapons being good vs armor ( i assume you mean the main cannon ) i only been back for about a week or so last time i played you would never win in MBT vs MBT unless you had AP main cannon with AP secondary gun. if that changed then it new to me.
    and your right Anti tank MBT do pick on infantry when they run out of things to do. but at that point there basically just snipers. they need to land direct hits (splash is basically non existent) to do any real damage.

    for the range factor only 2 maps have really open area. (out of 4 i know) and most bases have walls/cliffs so armor does have to come closer if they want to shoot at infantry and expose themselves to back attacks from HA or LA c4 and open areas makes them vunerable to libs
  18. Exileant

    There most certainly is an art to it. Randoms are not going to get C4 kills on a long time player unless said player is distracted by something else in the room. They will get close, they will do damage, from time to time, but mostly it ends with them either being killed in some of the worst possible ways if they do not kill themselves in the process. :( C4 has already been given an outright stupid delay to detonate. (They press the button like their thumbs are numb, broken or everyone collectively has arthritis) Not to mention they now are a LOT weaker than they used to be.... :confused: It is almost useless to use it because it feels like you need 2 people to kill anything with a decent amount of speed now. o_O Vehicles have to be stopped when there is an over populated faction leading a charge. Trying to call in vehicles to counter other vehicles when you are outnumbered 3 vehicles to 1 is not only pointless, but it is also suicide.

    :eek: NO MORE C4 NERFS!!!!
  19. Yavimaya

    I just use my NS Swarm, seems to work ok.

    As abrasive as seems to be, I think Demigan has a pretty good point that infantry AV for a nanite cost could be expanded. Right now the main thing I think C4 does is make me park my sundy 5 feet away from rocks and walls instead of right next to them so there is room for spitfires.

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