I'm realizing lately through regular VR training in the offtime that I really don't think the Grip is a viable attachment anymore, for basically any gun NC or TR. VS I'm more gray on, but also VS guns don't really "need" foregrips as much I think, so there's that. Lately I'm actually entertaining the idea of dropping the Grip from all my guns and substituting the highest level of Laser attachment, whatever that may be. The logic is that whatever benefit the Grip may have is soo subtle that I can barely tell when it is on or not and even with it on you tend to wish it were more effective. On the flip side, you can probably skill compensate for not having the Grip, but one cannot "skill" better hipfire accuracy. So the laser has a hands down improvement over the performance of the weapon, where proper usage could alleviate the need for a Grip in the first place? Adv Grips may be a different story though, I can definitely feel the difference there, but still not as much as pre-GU08. Anyone else feel the same way?
You can't skill compensate very well for bi-directional horizontal recoil, so for weapons with that it (like the TR ones) could be a nice thing. I've tested Pulsar C at range with/without grip, and the difference is small but noticeable firing bursts at long range. I used foregrip pretty exclusively for a long time. However, the tightened CoF you get in hip fire makes the weapon a lot more versatile, even if it reduces your burst-fire effectiveness at range.
I can say pretty confidently that fore grips on VS LMGs are pretty important, we have more horizontal recoil than the NC coupled with a higher ROF means anything that can help mitigate that is pretty valuable.
I still think it's a requirement for long range LMG but the drastically increased equip time nerf'd some weapons harder than others. For the NC6 Gauss Saw I don't see there being a useful option for it (or any NC LMG) other than the foregrip. The anchor is pretty decent with the adv laser but it's the exception. They went a little overboard on trying to nerf LMGs. Yeah the foregrip should have a disadvantage but they nerf'd some weapons into the ground, especially some NC weapons that would make no sense running with anything but the foregrip.
Out of curiosity does the Orion follow this pattern? Because I am using the Orion with Laser attachment on my VS, and I am beasting with it. Don't really feel like it needs the grip TBH. What about the EM6? TBH it's got great rail accuracy, but I'm not really a fan of how this weapon feels even with a Grip, though I didn't unlock it until AFTER GU08, so maybe that hit its interests as hard as the NC6, I'm just not sure on that one. TMG-50 has the same issue for me as the EM6, even with a Grip it just doesn't feel good.
Advanced foregrip seems to be a very good for TR weaponry which is mostly suffering from high horizontal recoil, but we just don't get access to it (bar two hardly used weapons).
Couldn't really tell you, I've never put any decent time in with the Orion, but I can say that the SVA-88 with a forward grip and compensator make for a very deadly (ADS) machine.
Yeah like I may have said, Level 2 Grip is a little different, but I'm talking mostly about the generic Level 1 Grip.
The fore-grip is only really beneficial after about 70m-80m for most weaponry. 60m is when it actually starts to make a noticeable difference, but 70m-80m is pretty much where it over shadows the laser pointer and actually provides a worthwhile benefit to accuracy worth writing home about. Some guns like the T16 and TMG don't really need a fore-grip to begin with. Advanced fore-grip? Practically overkill on the T16 in my opinion. Actually, as ironic as it sounds, the CQC weapons benefit more from fore-grips than the "long range" oriented weapons do. There's also the added caveat that anyone at or beyond 80m has to essentially stand still through the necessary number of rounds for One to actually kill them. More often than not, a sniper round will do the job 10x better at this distance. This works in reverse too: if the shooter of an adv foregripped T16 is ADS while strafing, their CoF is causing severe inaccuracies at the ranges the fore-grip should shine, and they strafe to avoid that 10x better sniper round. Lose-lose. As a result, I never go without a laser attachment on my weapon. Training dummies are poor substitutes for how effective a weapon is, as most targets simply don't stand still to make a fore-grip all that useful. Laser's though... it's much harder to run away and find cover in a CQC encounter. I've decimated my fair share of people hip firing in bursts a laser mounted CARV, and this is one weapon I'd argue really benefits from the fore-grip and is rather poor with a laser! Of course... save for the 750 RPM forming a solid wall of lead. Basically, I laugh at anyone that uses a fore-grip. I can't remember the last time I actually died to an automatic at a range where it would actually be beneficial to have a fore-grip. It just doesn't happen in my experience. I understand why people like the "ranged" attachments. Fore-grips and compensators make firing down the sights CoD easy, but a majority of the killing via automatics is done at distances where that kind of recoil mitigation is simply marginal at best.
Yeah see this is exactly what I'm talking about. I pretty much agree with everything you said, as that's what I think as well. There is so much range compression built into the weapons themselves that frankly post GU08 I am finding the ADS based attachments to be little more than cert grabs at this point. Couple that with the fact that high velocity ammo actually increases recoil while ADS completely counteracts the point of putting a Grip on in the first place, or even equipping the upgrade ammo for that matter... I was considering Lasering my CARV, but damn the hipfire CoF is so dreadful, I'm not sure why it's that bad, that's the only thing wrong with the weapon IMO. I might as well cert it and see how I like it. I'm also doing Laser on Mercenary/Trac 5/Solstice as I find the Laser is the superior upgrade for all of the stock carbines for all factions. LMGs: Orion is a definite Laser, SAW is Adv Grip and CARV is a crapshoot, neither are ideal for the gun. I've got Lasers on my shotguns now too, foregoing extended mags. If you aren't using a Laser on an SMG you are doing it wrong... Lasers on Pistols... Lasers are pretty much the superior infantry upgrade in all or most cases as of now.
