Possible sunderer buffs from Higbys stream

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by MasonSTL, Jul 9, 2014.

  1. Diggles

    I think Sundys are already in a pretty good place and dont need a buff to durability. If Sundys are made any tougher, it is only going to make zergs more powerful. RIght now, if you are outpopped it takes some pretty sneaky/clever or coordinated attack to get rid of 1 of 3/4 sundys at a base under attack.

    If anything a cloak+shield that reduces air damage would be more ideal than something that reduces ALL damage.

    Right now most people choose Blockade for its damage resistance to way more sources (and more LIKELY sources), and accept the downside of tank mines being your Achilles heel.

    I'd also really like to see Prox Radar be moved back to Utility slot to actually let the owner or crew of a sundy defend itself without having to go Infil for a motion sensor.
    • Up x 1
  2. Einharjar

    It's quite a shame that things come down to these sort've arguments.
    It's all about the "1 vs 1" mentality and nothing to do with the macro side of things.

    Spawn points will go down. Logistics DOES get taken out. But you're smart, you won't have most of your forces balled up and Zerging an area only 50 X 50 meters. If you spread your sunderer locations and try to screen your enemy, define a battle front and have forces cover your flanks? Your logistics will remain in tact. I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. A class who SPECIALIZES in demolitions SHOULD COMPLETELY WRECK a fortified location, Deployed AMS sunderers included.

    It's a terrible fate we face to have such a conversely different swath of views and none of them, at all, pay any heed to what the game's intent was supposed to be in the first place: LARGE SCALE CO-OP PVP.

    I seriously see no reason to buff sunderers. I see more reason to restrict which classes get C4 yes (but then let the classes that are allowed to have it, stock lots of it), but to make Sunderers even harder to kill? Come on.
    Any smart platoon leader with a well coordinated group will BREAK this game at it's own mechanics. The only reason to make sunderes more resilient is to give an option to be more forgiving since many people don't even squad up and co-ordinate.

    It's going to be in the defense slot too. Hmm. I guess even "risk vs reward" methods of design are thrown out the window here...
    • Up x 2
  3. Regpuppy


    That's partly my point. While I agree with most of the resource update, the sunderer shouldn't be that disposable. But it especially shouldn't be that disposably priced, if they ever plan on buffing the sunderer durability.

    My wording was horrid, but I agree with you about sunderer being undeserving of a buff. In both the current and especially with the, to our knowledge, price they're planning on giving it.

    Also, the flash price seems redonkulous in that list.
  4. Copasetic

    C4 and mine resistance should be bumped up when the Sunderer is deployed only. That would be the easiest way to keep people from soloing a Sunderer without affecting anything else.
    • Up x 1
  5. Hartkernharald

    yes, if it's unattended. but not because the other guy couldn't kill a bunnyhopping engineer in the time it takes to throw 2 mines and a grenade. especially on hossin with all kinds of cover everywhere.
    • Up x 1
  6. Kevin49704

    I think the should make AMS sunderers cost more, I don't want to make it so all the sunderers used for things besides spawning become too expensive to use. That being said I think a system of increasing vehicle cost based on the attachments put on it needs to be put in place anyways.
  7. Vikarius

    Sundies can get buffs IF and ONLY if the AMS radius is increased 3x. and redeploy gets a cooldown.

    There is far too many way to just "instantly get into the fight" that it is abused nonstop and makes defending a sunderer meaningless, much less smart placement. You make those changes, and people will think where they should deploy the AMS, and the sundy will be far more valuable (and make or break your attack).
  8. JibbaJabba

    The problem I think they are trying to address: It's basically impossible to defend a spawn point.

    If you mount an insane defense all it takes is one C4/Mine fairy to get through and it's over.

    People who don't adequately defend *should* lose the sundy. But if there is a whole team of engies repairing, both guns manned, and some infantry defense then it should be possible to defend a sundy until the enemy puts up an overwhelming attack on it. (tanks, multiple C4 fairies, lots of HAs with rockets, AV maxes/engies).

    I guess I feel that ONE person should not be able to destroy a sundy in ONE shot. Set it burning? Sure. Your own damn fault if you don't quickly repair it. Destroy it though? No. It should take a team to destroy what a team is defending. Send 2x C4 fairies in if you want it down.
  9. JibbaJabba

    Listen to what you just said.

    No 2 c-4 does not destroy a sunderer. All you have to do is 2 c-4 and a single rocket shot. Dude that is for all practical purposes the same thing.

    The big point: I can take out a Sundy single handedly in 15 seconds all by myself with a single infantry. It doesn't matter if there are a dozen people repairing it. If I can slip through the defenses and reach it then it's done for instantly.

    A single person should not be able to destroy what a team is defending. It should take a team to take it out.
    • Up x 1
  10. Morti

    Yeah I see this a lot.

    Mossy/lib flying directly overhead, suddenly has no pilot. Frantically looking around for the guy who jumped out, boom, sundy gone.
    • Up x 2
  11. Copasetic

    I wish they could just stop people from piloting an aircraft if they have mines or C4 equipped. It's lame and it keeps being used to justify blanket nerfs on things that end up affecting a lot more than just the tiny fraction of deaths that happen at the hands of ESF bailers.
    • Up x 1
  12. GhostAvatar

    They really need to hold off on this until the resource revamp has been out for a while. From the looks of it, it is going to be costly to take down a sunnderer and failed attempts will burn a lot of resources. Plus the sunndy is looking to be dirt cheap to pull (about double the cost of a flash or half an ESF).
  13. Konstantinn


    It takes others to distract defenders while another person plants explosives. Sunderer defended by more than one person is difficult to walk up to. Most sunderers have a few people staying with it during big fights at important locations. I said "walk up to" on purpose, because light assault only has 2 C4 at most, only engie can instagib non-mineguard sunderer and engies don't fly.

    Regular sunderer getting 2 C4 on the back is only lit on fire (meaning that light assault has to shoot everyone around it for some time to prevent them from repairing). Most sunderers nowadays have blockade, so 2 C4 don't even light it on fire and that light assault is just uselessly flailing around. If you put maxed mineguard on your sunderer and have 1 engie guarding it (requires engie with a fully functioning brain to use repair tool when appropriate) it is literally immune to any one single attacker on foot. Full mineguard doesn't die to even 3 tank mines (which is max an engie can carry).

    A heavy might be lucky enough to walk up to sunderer, plant 2 C4 on the back (a must), and then fire off a rocket in the back, also toss a vehicle grenade for immediate explosion. All of this with defending engie just standing there and watching. That's at least 6-7 seconds of that heavy (with a very specific loadout mind you) being completely vulnerable to defender, not counting the time it takes to walk up to sunderer. Let's say walk up time of just 3 seconds, making a total of 10 seconds. Ask yourself, when you have enemy just standing there, for 10 seconds, not shooting back at you, almost point blank range, how hard is it to kill him?

    Point is sunderers are already defended enough against solo attackers and require teamwork to take down. Those complaining want to be able to leave their sunderer undefended and walk away. Tools are already available in game that make your sunderer invulnerable to any single attacker, it only requires a single engineer and mineguard. If you have those 2 things, the only way to take out your sunderer is teamwork. This change, if it goes through, is a kneejerk reaction to more and more people leveling up and having access to explosive heavy loadouts (like engie with stickie grenades and 3 land mines, or heavy with rocket/twoC4/vehicle grenade).

    Only reason it wasn't a problem before is fewer people had all these things at once. It is already countered by defenders also leveling up and having appropriate sunderer certifications to counter.
  14. Pootisman

    3 tank mines instantly kill any vehicle in the game. They are relatively cheap and can be dropped pretty fast.
  15. Champagon

    The blanket issue is that ONE GUY can stop a massive zerg force in a matter of seconds. This completley eliminates the concept of TEAMWORK.

    • Why use a team when i can just suicide C4 fairy to the sunderer and stop a massive infantry zerg?

    • There is a reason why PS1 AMS unit was durable and cloaked.
    Too many "MLG Pros" trying to get easy farm kills. Sunderers need to be buffed, or C4 fairies need to be removed. Pick ONE
  16. JibbaJabba

    That's an issue I think.

    My real world ordnance experience kicks in here.....

    We need the game to account for both low and high order detonations. A high order detonation occurs when the explosive train in the detonator of a device is used. The maximum power of the bomb/mine is then seen.

    A low order detonation occurs when there is a problem with the device or it is detonated by other means. This occurs for example when a bomb "cooks off" in a fire, or sustains a shock that causes it to detonate accidentally. A low order detonation is an order of magnitude less powerful than a high order detonation. The explosion is lower velocity, lower pressure, and sometimes simply results in the explosive compound "burning".

    Mines and C4 in Planetside need to be subject to this.

    Mines driven across should absolutely jack up a vehicle. No doubt.
    Mines placed under a stationary vehicle then detonated with a grenade or bullet should only do about 1/3 of the damage at most.
    Same thing with C4. If you get the charge placed then die before triggering, it should do very little damage if detonated by a secondary explosion.
    • Up x 2
  17. Elrobochanco

    As someone who doesn't find it especially difficult to keep my own sundy up (in a smallish fight) or to kill an enemy sundy in...well any sized fight, all the proposed additions are good. It's way too easy for a single person (me) to dislodge an entire army just because I know how to deliver pizza from the sky.

    If after the changes it mean that there is more reason for people to smoke/mark sundies and co-ordinate barrages to it/request vehicle assistance. That's a nice increase to the complexity of the game. The cost of a sundy and it's range for deployment is pretty irrelevant to be arguing when the sundy existing at all is binary when one clever player knows where it is.
    • Up x 3
  18. Niamar

    Might as well remove sunder and give attackers a spawn room with a gate generator and scu at every base, seriously WHAT are they thinking?

    The only way outnumbered defenders can break the attackers is if they take out all of the spawn points.

    Make it harder to take that spawn point out, which they can already have countless number of beacons and sunderes spread out around a base, and they will promote the worst thing about this game - spawn camping the defenders.

    So the game will come down to this every ________ time. Outnumbered spawn somewhere else. Boring ______ game.

    I have a better option since they want to force game play onto players. Make the sunder squad only, and force everyone to auto join a squad, can't leave a squad without joining another, kicked from squad auto joins another... Then the defenders can camp your invulnerable sunder, turnabout is fair play and all that.
  19. FateJH

    If twelve people were defending a capture point room looking at one set of doors, an enemy enters from the door they are not looking at, he manages to kite around them and drop 2 C4 packs among them, and kills them all by detonating it, is it his fault they did not see him? The means of detecting him were simple and accessible, and there was nothing stopping them. I don't see why we should pardon twelve failures against a fewer number of successes just because the numbers aren't equal, especially if we let can let two C4 destroy a 2/2 MBT because the gunner was looking somewhere else or not looking up in the firsdt place.

    I think then it comes down to that question of skill that I hear people talk about. Especially when this game makes bunnyhopping very useless for anything but some headshot dodging.
    I'll also add that an Infiltrator's job is all about killing people and undoing enemy assets because people are being unattentive. He can't easily destroy vehicles, no, but that's not the point. The point is that it is not impossible for him to demolish twelve people if he is that much more skilled in his trade than they are (theirs).

    I feel kind of strange as I'm usually the guy on the opposite side of this argument.
  20. Goretzu

    To be fair without proper engineering resources (al la PS1) it is a PITA.