Those stats enclude all the data they've collect, including in the time before the NC nerf. If you look at the data week by week now all the NC AI weapons in the top 11 are slowly going down and all the VS and TR weapons in the top 11 are going up. This means all those TR and VS AI weapons are signficantly outperfoming NC weapon now.
ZOE is a good counter to charge, Lockdown not quite as good, but still effective if you have the range to start with (as you should if the NC needs to Charge), also any decent MAX player knows how and when to Charge away from an enemy, tactically. But you are absolutely right; Charge is much better than Aegis Shield.
That's what others and me are telling him for around a week now and what he blissfully ignores on his "my stats are proof" trip. Im not one of these statpullers myself, but i bet my rig that the official stats will look drastically different, otherwise they wouldn't talk about nerfing ZOE already and further nerfs to the NC AI MAX would have been already deployed in the last 2 GUs.
Yeah, if you look at how the stats from that site are changing week by week (NC stats going down TR/VS going up), and then weight it against the mountain of pre-existing data they are using to get their averages. It looks like currently TR and VS AI MAX weapons are significantly out-performing NC ones, not a little bit, but probably much more than the NC AI weapons ever did the TR and VS ones. Hopefully SOE is taking note of this with their much more accurate data (what Highby said about ZOE stats on twitter suggests they probably are). What is also interesting with that data though is it shows that whilst NC AI MAXs undoubtedly got a lot of kills they also died significantly more too, something which is only likely to get worse with time too, as the weapons are now much weaker, but with the same or worse drawbacks leading to those extra deaths.
It's only logical that the NC MAX gets outperformed in a lot of scenarios, the rate of fire reduction means they can't kill other MAXes as fast as before, or rack up infantry kills as fast, the biggest hit though is the magazine size and the reload speed combined with the strict need of getting as close as possible to the enemy to take full advantage of owns weapons, which leaves you oftentimes without cover, although the Aegis Shield may compensate for that, if it would actually soak up all damage and could take some more. Also the very high killspeed isn't a feat of the NC MAX anymore, happens often enough that MAXes with dual Mercies or dual Cosmos or even Blueshifts just kill every infantryman in sight in under 2 seconds each, and this at a far greater range than the NC MAX could compete. One could try to use Slugs on the Shotguns, but the amount of spread applied to them is just to high. Someone compared it with rolling a dice, roll a 5 or 6 and you hit, everything else is a miss. Although i would complement it by roll a 1 and you shoot yourself in the foot.
Yep, the nerfs will have been a big hit to NC MAX AI relative power without a doubt (the worse effects being with vanilla MAXs and with fully certed MAXs) in fact the last of the google.doc collected score per hour MAX stats showed that with the NC MAXs droping ~15%+ behind TR and VS AI MAXs. And when you then add Shield vs Lockdown vs ZOE on top, you're effectively getting TR and VS MAXs that match NC AI MAXs in their prime range and yet still carry that power way, waaaaaaaay out past NC AI MAX prime range. To make slugs genuinely a contender on MAXs they'd need to include a significant CoF decrease with using them. All in all I wish they'd just gone PS1 AI MAX route for PS2.
This can also be applied to close range, when they backpedal from a shotgun MAX they will simply wear him down, sure they may loose 80% of their health, but they still win against something that should dominate in close ranges.
We already had that one, oh blissfully ignorant peasant. The stats are faulty because they are including pre-nerf stats.
Ps2-stats.com isn't as good as a you guys think it is to get CURRENT data. That site show everything since launch IF it pulls the data. It holds and accounts for the data pulled from times where EVERYTHING had a turn being OP. Magrider, HE spam, Prowler, rocketpods, and yes even the old NC MAX data where no one knew how to deal with shotguns yet. We need CURRENT data! You can't use 6 month old data to say something is OP, UP, ****** up, or just right after the game has been changed countless times by patches. And you know what? We can't get the right data now thanks to ******* idiots like those that spout merit-less ********. How can that be, you ask? Because Cupboy rage-quit pulling those stats from being reported by the idiots on trolling for calling out their ******** while giving some if not the best data Iv seen and the forums mods here agreeing to the reports. We need someone to kiss that mans *** and beg him to restart his work. Or at least have him pass on how to pull the data needed. I worked my *** off to prove my claims and the claims of those I agree with. Posting 6 month old data will not win you **** against me. How hard can it be to disprove what I typed out over the last few pages? I even found **** ups with my data and fixed what I could. It's like Im asking to be proven wrong with me giving everything I use. The funny part is. I AM asking for someone to kick my *** and disprove me. The bad part? No one has yet.
That's the current problem, because Cupboy quit pulling the data the, how do i say it delicatly? Idiots? Trolls? Wannabe right-havers, have free reign to pull false or faulty data and say their claim is right, without any real logic behind, and most people believe them "because numbers", even for false numbers. How does the saying go? "Don't trust any statistics you didn't fabricated yourself." I trust what i feel and what i see, and what i see is NC MAXes being pulled a lot less since the nerf, and being less useful in any scenerio, the buffs to the VS and TR MAXes did the rest. All the whiners are now riding on old data and faulty stats because they are to narrow minded to use their brain for more then 3 consecutive seconds.
If you look at what I had to do to get close to real DPS numbers at certain ranges for both dual Mercy and dual Hacksaw MAXes against MAXes then you'll see that you don't need to be an idiot to not be able to read data. It helps, but making an understanding of raw data is not an easy thing to do. Most see averages and think that they are an end all be all thing. Well with taking ps2-stats.com for example you have to read the data it has in a certain way. You just have to find a way to filter out old data or the new weapons and patch changes will never show without months of the old "good" weapons being in the dirt and the new "good" weapons ruling all. Look at the MAX AV weapons http://ps2-stats.com/weapon/infantrytype/av_max/all/overall With just the new weapons, Fractures have a CLEAR advantage. They are even getting close to 6 MONTH old data with only being a few weeks old while the other 2 new AV weapons are lagging far behind (Raven kills are almost 1/3 of Fracture kills). But in averages Fractures ARE out playing 6 month old weapons. In average by hour Fractures are top dog by far in my opinion. That is a hint of how to compare new and old weapons, yet all of that is useless when you don't have new weapons to compare to. MAX AI weapons have nothing new, just old with new stats and stat modifiers (ZOE/lockdown). You just can't work with that data. There is no way to tell new data from old data and if you can't do that then the entire site is **** for these debates after the first patch that changed 1 weapons stats. This isn't limited to AI weapons either. Gen 1 MAX AV weapons stats on that site are also SOL thanks to patches. You can not read all data the same. If you don't account for changes and toss out old data then the old spoil the new. Think of it like buying milk. You don't pour what's left of the old jug in the new, that would ruin the entire supply! Once old milk goes bad you toss it out. The same has to be done with data or it will spoil everything it touches. Then you have to deal with the stink when opening it. Great, I can smell that **** now.
You don't have to tell me that, if it was up to my responsibilty to maintain that database i would wipe it after each major change or at least segment it into the portions between GUs, so we could directly compare the old vs the new. But i neither have the know how to pull the data nor the storage and server capability to hold it for extended time.
Of course more are being pulled, you never saw any VS maxs before ZOE because they were just that terrible. We finally got a buff that made us slightly better than an NC max and everyone and their mother screams OP. I have said it before how about we give you guys another buff so that you can shut up, let the NC max use the 1 free arm with the shield up, and increase the TR maxs damage output slightly in lockdown, and leave the ZOE alone, or if you must nerf it, give it a 3-5 sec charge up time period.
Making the shield actually soak up all damage would be more useful, and giving it a semi strong melee ability. What makes ZOE OP isn't the fact that it increase the damage by an unspecified amount, maybe it doesn't matter that much on AI weapons, but it certainly matter on AA and AV weapons. It doesn't even need to matter on AI weapons since they already kill you in one second by nature, without ZOE, ZOe is just the drop that makes it boil over, with the disadvantage that MAX had to bear, beind slow and easy targets, being completly removed through ZOE. In the TTK department i could also complain about the TR Mercies, they also kill you incredible fast in CQC considering the maximum range they got. They should make the long ranged weapons terrible at CQC, like they did with the LMGs, but that's a lot harder on the MAXes.
You do know outside of the AA gun the max antivehicle guns are God aweful, nothing like the ravens or whatever the TR have. Also long range weapons just arnt that good when youre trying to cap a base of really any kind because those engagements are all medium to close range.
stop whining about being murder by a shotgun at 2m now i think the NC needs there max UNNERFED because think your being killed my a SHOTGUN AT CLOSE RANGE THATS WHAT THEY DO!!!!!! so stop being a baby and whining tat your being killed in a game wher you respawn!
