Please don't nerf the AV Turret

Discussion in 'Engineer' started by Varennikov, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. Varennikov

    I am posting this thread after seeing a lot of complaints about the AV Turret. Their argument is that the AV Turret has too good of a range, too high damage, too high reload, infinite ammo and easy reconstruction.

    Ok, so those are all valid points. Now let's see the weaknesses of the AV Turret. You are a sitting duck and free kill, your turret is not quite as easy to guide as is believed (the poster of the nerf thread said he'd actually never used the turret), the turret's damage is not game breaking and it has a high reload speed. The only real strengths of the AV Turret are its range and the guidance. At close range, it is better to go HA than it is to use the turret. Otherwise you are a free kill to anything.

    If the AV Turret really has to be nerfed, please don't nerf the range or the damage or the guidance. How about making the reload speed different by not starting starting the reload timer until AFTER your missile has detonated. This would make extreme range shooting VERY slow to reload. Also making turret reconstruction take longer would be reasonable as well.

    I am posting this thread as a counter argument to the Nerfers. This is one weapon which is not game breaking and broken. And if people bring up the argument about spamming the AV Turret: So, 20 people make AV turrets and start sniping away. How about they all switch to 20 Heavy Assaults? or 20 Tanks? or 20 Liberators? All other options are so much more powerful and so much better options that they are much better choices. The only reason an engineer uses the AV turret is because the engineer class has no rocket launcher etc.

    Please don't nerf the AV turret's damage or range. If you really have to then nerf the reload speed or guidance (to a point). This weapon is really fun to use, IMO especially the sniping. I would like everyone who is currently asking to nerf to please try out this weapon. You will see that you are a free kill to anything and that making kills at extreme range is more personal skill and luck than it is the weapon itself.

    One thing I do agree with is to fix the rendering. The AV Turret's missiles go invisible after a certain range. Maybe fixing that alone will stop the QQing. This weapon ain't broke, folks.
    • Up x 3
  2. NoMoarAmmo

  3. evansra

    The reason the AV turret is op is because it can hit tanks from out of render range making it impossible to fight back. fix that and I would be happy.
    • Up x 8
  4. Killbot

    ^^^This. AV turrets are sniper, tank shell, and rocket bait. It is not the AV turret's fault it does not render in its operational range.
    • Up x 2
  5. Fang7.62

    The overall fact that infantry is more effective at long range vehicle fighting than vehicles themselves is ridiculous and AV MANA just takes the freaking cake as the hand of god with botomless mag, no costs and no real cooldowns sitting at a hill hex away, dropping sundies in 4 shots. And I do abuse the living hell out of this broken cr*p while its available because phoenix has only 300m range, less damage and limited ammo.
  6. IronWarrior

    OP is BR17 with just over 1 day of playing trying to explain that the AV Turret isn't OP'ed. :eek:
  7. eldarfalcongravtank

    the biggest problem is the turret's phantom projectile. usually, you dont see the rocket coming until its too late. as a vehicle operator, you instantly hear a large *plonk* indicating the missile hit you. but as infantry, you usually die instantly after getting hit by the missile which is gamebreaking, in my view.

    the next GU will actually fix this problem of non-rendering projectiles (i hope) so we'll see how this will turn out. still, it is a bit strange that the engineer (who is a SUPPORT class) has a better performing anti-vehicle platform (in most situations at least) in terms of precision and range than the heavy assault
    • Up x 1
  8. SirIBON

    Sorry, but think about the job the Engineer has, next to repair something. :)
    • Up x 1
  9. Ronin Oni

    Invisible AV rounds getting fixed soon
  10. Klinkin

    I'd honestly like to see a few improvements in AV turrets, though I'm also willing to yield some obvious fixes. Make AV turrets render at vehicle range? Makes sense. Make the shots render at normal ranges for handheld rockets or vehicle projectiles? Sure. Meanwhile, can we get a 2x sight for the thing? I'm not sure how everyone is hitting at these extremely long ranges with a mouse sensitive enough to be useful in normal combat. I'd also like to see a shield that actually covers my face for once to make these things less sniper-bait, at least head-on (they can be kept vulnerable to flanking, though).
  11. PWGuy93

    From the recent test server patch notes
    Looks like rendering range is a non-issue seeing as they enabled a fix to help it work better.

    I can see complaints from vehicles about Engineer turrets, but on the other side of the coin they don't tend to understand it from the Engineer's point of view. They can't be placed just anywhere. They (anti vehicle) have no shield to hide behind. Vehicles can move, mana turrets are placed. Basically for every complaint there's a counter argument.

    I also see where they can be the cause of grief by players that use them to "spam" shields but that's no different that air or tanks or harassers doing the same thing, it's base layout design problem that allows that to happen.

    The Anti Vehicle Mana turrets from my view are just fine, they have effective high risk for their reward and help infantry players move the map. Any vehicle can counter a mana turret including at extreme rendering range, they just have to stop what they're doing and engage them - I always thought that's what vehicles were for, finding and engaging enemies outside of bases...

    Perhaps the style of play is really the issue? Vehicles from what I witness like to sit in or on the edges of bases shooting spawn shields instead of patrolling for enemy sunderers or lonely Engineers with a mana turret.

    /snarky tone
    When I play Engineer (less and less these days) I use mana turrets to complete a task, leave it and move on to the real objective. I don't find them particularly enjoyable, they do a job, when completed I move on. I could say the same for any vehicle. I don't put a sleeping bag in a vehicle hoping to stay in it the entire game, it has a purpose once complete time to move on to the next. If vehicles don't include taking out the mana turret as part of their objectives then that's their burden not yours, don't let their complaints get to you.
    /end snarky tone
  12. QuarterPro

    They likely didn't fix the rendering range issue because it is not possible to fix. The turret IS rendering, it's just so far away that it takes up a total of zero pixels on your screen. This complaint about the AV turret is valid, as it has been since day 1 of its introduction.

    It seems like they are just fixing this one step at a time to make sure they bring it into balance as gently as they can. First, make sure the vehicles getting attacked can see the projectile because quite often the directional HUD marker is of no help at all. If that doesn't bring the thing into some reasonable balance when used at these ranges (and I suspect it will not) they're probably going to do something to reign in its effective range.
  13. LynxFury

    I don't think it has anything do with the render distance. I've sniped AV turrets at more than 500m--they render as vehicles and usually includes the operator. It does have to do with their incredible accuracy at ranges the tanker is unlikely to detect even after multiple hits. A good engineer is going to offset the original launch angle so the rocket's smoke doesn't mask the target. The tank, even if looking in the correct direction, isn't going to see the rocket until the rocket is close and coming from that offset angle which will be a long ways from the direction of the shooter. Additions trouble is if the tank seeks cover, the engy will just set that offset angle high and blind shoot based on the dorito--in that instance the tank won't be able to see the AV turret at all.
  14. McToast


    I use the turret frequently on my engineer and it's one of the few things that I believe are OP in this game (but then I think that BASR onehitkilling and harassers are not OP^^).
    The turret should have its range heavily nerfed. Losing control of the missile after 250m should do it in my opinion. Along with HA lock ons it gives infantry too much of a long range AV counter.

    the Toast
  15. Quiiliitiila

    Same with all the spamtastic lock on launchers and even sometimes the projectiles from Phalanx Turrets. If SOE could fix the render issue with ALL of these weapons, the game would be just a bit better.

    However, I have far more an issue with lock on's not rendering than with AV turrets not rendering. AV turrets are very limited in the places you can put them and often when you can set it down, it's somewhere slightly in the open and inconvenient. Lock on's can literally be fired from ANYWHERE (all those inaccessible ledges that can only be landed on by drop-pods or aircraft). Even if an engineer gets onto one of those ledges, chances are they can't deploy the turret. Even if they can set it up, it can't aim down very far and there's no zoom to speak of.

    Using the turret at long ranges takes more skill than a lot of people give credit for, and honestly the only way to improve it would be to fix the render issue. Any nerfs would make it useless. Any buffs would make it slightly over the top.
    • Up x 1
  16. Zerran

    The only real problem I have with the AV turret is that the model does not accurately depict the hit-box of the thing.
  17. Qaz

    Returning fire at a turret that's sitting 500m away on some rock is incredibly hard with a tank. You could do it with the old saron, but not with the new one. I've used the turret, so i kinda know what i'm talking about, and making those 500m hits connect is definitely possible, and probably easier than with most other weapons.

    What i'd propose is to give meaning to destroying the turret. As it stands, my saron gunner can land 3 hits on it and kill it, but if he doesn't get the engi (which he most likely wont because it takes time to refire accurately), the turret can be back up 10 seconds later, or even a minute later. Point is, I killed the turret, but the threat is not eliminated. There's two ways we could improve on this:

    a) Give the engineer a limited amount of deploys (2-3), after which he has to return to a sundy or terminal to refill the 'ammo'
    b) Introduce a cooldown for placing the turret. I'm thinking ~3 minutes would be appropriate. This would encourage engineers to think about placing the turret carefully.

    In addition, i'd really like to see it lose the steering capabilities after around 400-450m. At that range, it's just not fair to be hit without really being able to evade because you don't know where it's coming from.
  18. ironeddie

    Being able to shoot outside of render range is unfair & should be changed. All other strengths of the AV turret are mitigated by the fact your standing still to use it & have a limited fireing arc.
  19. ghnurbles

    It needs its range nerfed badly. Infantry shouldn't be such a threat to armor at ranges where they can barely be seen. The Lancer has the same problem.
  20. Shoza Nakh

    Main problem of AV turret is capability to hit single pixel from maximum render range. I think AV turret need complete rework. I wish it become something like Halberd launcher, so it really require aiming.