Please do something about the cheating.

You seem to be confusing fact with supposition.

You (nor anyone else) categorically cannot prove this statement: "It's not me "thinking" there's very few, everything indicates that cheating is a minor issue, that has very little impact on the game overall. It's a fact, it's not something I can "disagree" with, it's a FACT; a STATISTIC; a CONCRETE STATEMENT. There is no room for opinion. "

Indeed you state 'everything indicates' which by its nature admits uncertainty - then quote it's a "fact / statistic / concrete statement", none of which is true. In a court of law this would not hold water.


Unfortunately for you - the only thing we can categorically say beyond any reasonable doubt is that cheating occurs in PS2. What we do not know is how often. Nobody knows - so people have to make their own judgement based on the facts before them.

Did you watch the video I sent you? Or you can also dig up the reddit post of the devs. As I said, there's evidence, and even judging the "facts" of every day Planetside 2 life, it's obvious cheaters are irrelevant. The number of cheaters in the game is factual, not based on your emotions in game, I'm really unsure what there even is to disprove in that statement I made earlier. Or are you just refusing to accept reality?

Unfortunately for everyone, cheating occurs. It is such an anomaly, such a rare thing that is quickly handled; it doesn't require the spotlight you wish to place it on.

I'm fairly certain in a court of law, your 'but I feel like everyone that kills me is a subtle hacker, you can't see it, it's impossible to tell, but trust me, I'm sure of it' would hold up worse than my claim "cheating is a rare occurrence, that hardly has an impact on daily game-play as it is usually handled very quickly". As I said the video touches over the disclosed number of banned accounts/addresses.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1986in/short_explanation_of_our_banningsuspension/


As I said, hackers always get caught (maybe not IRL based on law, onion routing etc, but their presence in the system is ALWAYS detected), that's the number one lesson in cyber security. It's just a question of how long the guy is in the system before he gets discovered, and what he's able to do during that time. There's no such thing as subtle cheating, as modifying anything, no matter how "subtle" a change is detectable. Most cheaters are complete morons like the dude you referenced earlier, and are extremely easy to catch. The very few who actually take more precautions when cheating get caught eventually, and their impact in the game is minimal anyways since they are just mimicking a "good" player.

I don't work for DBG, and they don't usually disclose those numbers due to privacy reasons. They know (or at least have a very clear idea of) how often cheating occurs, it's a statistic as I mentioned. Here's a little discussion between some members of the community on reddit. Cheating is not something that happens often, and has little impact on the game.


https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/azy0s0/how_prevalent_is_cheating_in_planetside/


If you're going to tell me that stats, common sense, and extrapolation are more uncertain that 'trust me, you'll never tell, but everyone is hacking', then you must actually believe what you're saying, and there's not much I or anything else can do about that. You are in your own little bubble, refusing to admit the truth: you suck at the game.


There is not one bit of data or fact posted by the devs to support that cheating is a major issue in the game. If you watch the video or dig up the reddit post, you'll see there's actual proof to contradict everything you just claimed.

BUT did I actually state that ?


Actually I believe most people have been discussing this with an even hand. One in particular has been somewhat more fractious than most but i'll ignore certain comments for now.


Sometimes the motives behind the 'git-gud' crowd concern me but funnily enough, with you it doesn't. You clearly love PS2 and want it to continue. As do I. We just have different approaches.

You - would rather we didn't discuss cheats as it would put off new players in the belief that there aren't any (or negligible numbers).

Me - I suspect that cheating is a bigger issue and want them dealt with to ensure new players stay (at least longer than they do today).


We cannot prove who is right so i'll say it again - people need to make up their own minds. Burying it under the carpet is good for nobody - all that matters is for players to keep plugging cash into the game.

Did you even read a single word I said?

I know for sure you didn't even watch the video.

You prolly didn't even check out the links I sent either.

You do you, that changes nothing that cheating is not a significant issue for this game, and there's no reason to blow it out of proportions or launch wild accusations that completely disregard reality. I am simply regurgitating facts, there's no right or wrong, it's reality, plain and simple. I really don't get what's so hard to grasp.



How many times must I tell you "people need to make up their own minds." about cheating is ridiculous and completely absurd. If I think the sky is chocolate, does that mean it is? Really dude, what is your problem? CHEATING IS NOT YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE, IT IS FACTUAL. THE GUY IS EITHER CHEATING OR HE ISN'T. The hackers always get detected, if you "feel" he's cheating and he's still around after a few days, your feeling is wrong - HE IS NOT CHEATING!!!!



It's a game with 90's net-code that has been molested with every patch. There's players with high ping, players with low ping. There's players with beefy rigs and pro gaming equipment, there's others with pieces of sh*t. There's hardcore tryhard who have 7+ years of experience with the game, there's normal players with 7+ years experience, there's your average joe, and there's the people who couldn't kill a dude with a shotgun even if he were standing still withing melee range. Once in a while, there's a hacker, who is quickly dealt with. Scenario is the same with basically every other PC game that has and will ever exist. There's a lot of funky scenarios that occur because of all the factors above; statistically, few players have ever even encountered a hacker.


If it helps you sleep at night, you can think that everyone who kills you is a hacker. You likely will have a sh*t time playing, and will never improve, since everyone must hack to kill you. That doesn't change the fact that cheating is a minor issue, which is pretty quickly dealt with - you said so yourself. There are many reasons new players leave, and there are many steps that must be taken in order to fix it. Cheating however, is already an issue that has been resolved, it has little to no impact on the game, any player with some basic understanding of the game will say so, and the statistics shared by the team completely indicate the game has very little cheaters (not even 1%).

There will always be cheaters, just not as much as you make it seem, and although they can't get banned before they cheat, they are dealt with quickly and don't usually ruin more than a few hours of gameplay.

I would rather some naive players (and the dev team in general) focus on actual, relevant issues instead of crying wolf for stuff that has already been dealt with pretty damn well.

...which all rests on your 'fact' that the developers have revealed how they handled cheating (from 7 years ago) - a video and thread from over a year ago - and use this as proof of your 'facts' ? Your problem is that you state these as absolutes with no conception that things may have changed or the original statements were themselves incomplete or incorrect. "This guy says there's little to no cheating - so that's a fact".

You seem to have a big issue with me suggesting people can make up their own minds - how dare someone have a differing opinion to yourself ??? You have absolute confidence that every cheat will be discovered - some others do not.


I originally had you in the category of Obivanukenobi / JibbaJabba / Ivanpidorvan - defensive in 'cheat' threads but are pretty reasonable for the most part - you could even say we have some banter. I quite like them even if we have differing views and at the very least, we can agree to disagree. At the very least they also remain pretty civil.



So from me - let's agree to disagree and leave it there. Fair ?

You're right, I'm sure the devs were hiding everything from us, and in a year everyone suddenly starting hacking.

Hacker/cheats are always discovered, as I mentioned, I'm a computer engineer, I took courses on cyber-security and lectures, I even dealt with some. By definition, hackers (and therefore cheaters) are always discovered as they are foreign elements in the system. By modifying the script(s), they are revealing themselves, and therefore it is only matter of time until they are caught and dealt with.

I'll take the word of veterans and the devs over yours anyway, the little proof we have suggests you've got little to no idea of what you're talking about.


If it amuses you, think everyone is a hacker, and that it's impossible for them to get caught. Don't go around parading it in the forums demanding the devs act upon your "opinion", when everything indicates that's not the case, and they have already dealt with the problem accordingly.


You've literally admitted you will never have proof because you think it's impossible to tell when people are cheating (I'd love to know what background you have to make such statements, they go against everything I learned). What do you want the devs to do then? How can you accuse cheating to be so frequent if you state yourself that you have no idea what a hacker looks like? How would you know the devs are/aren't taking action - you have no idea what a hacker is?!

Little, "outdated" proof > "opinions"

So I did actually encounter a cheater today, An engie shooting through walls on a mana turret. Had a barcode name and everything. Actually bragged about not being caught yet.

Here's a tip. If you want to report them, but can't type their name, go to the Social tab of your player menu, it will bring up a large version of your chat window. You can click directly on their name and file a report for cheating. If its something blatant then definitely report. There's a lot of people who will complain about cheaters and not even try reporting because "There's no point". Yes there is. If you don't report, moderators will have no idea that someone has bypassed the automatic anti-cheat and the cheater in question will continue unimpeded. Secondly it allows the developers to gather information to improve their anticheat software, so that it does not happen again. Don't complain if you do not contribute.

The funny thing is - anonymity gives people big balls, boasting about their achievements and attempting to discredit others.

You appear to be proud of your achievements - and a big congratulations from me, I doff my hat, but allow me to share mine.


I have worked in the computer industry for over 30 years in the same company (a multi-national computer company) doing everything from software development through to senior management. My current position (for the past 4 years) is solution design leader for cyber security across four European markets. I teach the goddam subject.


Sooo - do you feel like a challenge ? I'm sure we can concoct something where I can acknowledge your undoubted prowess whilst also confirming my credentials. I'm thinking something along the lines of linkedin - despite my dislike of it due to the headhunters, at least it will categorically confirm my qualifications and network on the subject at hand. (I believe this is known as a 'fact').

I mean no animosity by this at all - but you appear to think I have no insight and I want to prove that I have (and almost certainly very much more than you).

Mates the obvious hackers (the Flying Max, the aimbotter, the guy shooting through walls/force fields, ... ) are a minority, quickly spotted, reported and quickly banned.

If I were an hacker I would be way more subtle and have for example a slightly modified hit box so I can have a very good headshot ratio without being suspicious enough to be reported by tons of players.

How many of those around?

Which means you should know better than everyone hackers always get caught....?

I'd really hope in your 30 years of experience you would have stuff better to say than 'everyone is hacking, and it's impossible to tell'. If that were really the case, what do you even do in your job? Do you tell your clients "we'll never know who's a hacker, so it's better we just shut down the website"?


Honestly, if that's true, I'm pretty disappointed; no point in tryna reason with you then. Keep believing everyone is subtly hacking to kill you then I guess.

Dude, it can be subtle to you, but modified code is modified code. Very simple to verify once investigated. "Subtle" hacking is a figment of your imagination. A slightly modified hitbox = a modified hitbox. It's not a question of how much, that's simply something the observer is going to notice, it's just a question of having it modified at all. Every good player has been reported, even players as bad as me have been reported too.


"Obvious hackers" are a majority of hackers. Very few even bother to mask their cheats. Sure, they can bypass battleeye by running third party programs or using cheats (like the MANA turret cheat) that the game can't detect, but once CS investigates (and they do), they can identify the hacker.


There's no reason to blow this issue out of proportion once more, it's already been made pretty clear that it's been dealt with to the best of the game's ability, they have even taken legal action in the past.

On emerald right?

Yeah it's this guy that's been hoping around from server to server, faction to faction using the good old MANA turret cheat. We tried emping him through the rocks and all but no dice. However, I managed to catch him lacking and tked him once.

He got banned I think, can't search him up. If he keeps this up they'll likely ban his IP soon, he's just abusing the fact the majority of the team is working from home right now, so things are a little slow.

It simply means I know an awful lot - I may not know more than you do (i'm being very generous here) so are you up for the challenge ?

It's really simple - I can categorically prove my knowledge on the subject. Are you willing to take that challenge ?

I'm not here to play childish games, if you know your stuff better than me great. I'm sure you know much more than me, enough to disprove all the basics I have been taught. I'm in hardware, so all the hack-athons and cyber-security courses/lectures were just taken to complement my interest in programming. If you say you've spend 30 years of your life in the same company, add that to the years of education you (I hope) went through; quite frankly you're probably easily twice my age. You have more experience, so you should understand the situation.


Point was, you should know better than to claim "they'll never catch some hackers" and assume cheaters consist of more than a tiny, almost insignificant portions of the community, by no means over 1% of the active player-base. The numbers diclosed by the team, as old as they were indicate it's nothing more than a minor issue, and there's literally no reason for there to be a spike in cheaters - if anything there's less because the game is dying. The escalation pop spike maybe brought back a few, I'll admit I've encountered two this last month (the MANA turret guy and some weirdo teleportating around trying to get kills with his amaterasu, but the guy was so bad he kept getting wrecked anyways), which is more than I've encountered the last 3-4 years combined.

I've heard the myth of the "subtle" hacker a few times, it's quite hilarious when others bring it up (noob alert), but coming from you, I'll try to take it seriously.

Professor, explain to us what measures the devs should take to deal with hackers, because you've spent your last posts saying it's "impossible to tell", so what are you even asking of them to do???? Understand my confusion, you state even you wouldn't know what one of these "subtle" cheaters could look like, how can you expect the team to catch them? What measures would you like the team to take against these invisible parasites?

Oh now boy - you changed your post, you decided that your original wasn't stinging enough so edited to make it more vociferous.

This is what you originally said:


...and everyone can see what you changed it to.


I refer to your post previously where you were extolling your amazing prowess on such matters (hacking) whilst questioning mine - and I explained that I am very far from green on the subject. I can prove it and challenged you (twice now) to confirm my credentials - yet - for some mystic reason, you are skirting around the subject. On that basis I believe I have you well and truly beaten. There is no shame in this, as I work in the industry I wouldn't expect a pre-pubescent male to have the same knowledge.


I've been reasonable throughout but there are limits - congratulations, you've just pushed me over.

Lol why you continue to engage TRspy, when he is about as mentally sharp as a desert spoon is beyond me. ******** cheat apologists like that are two a penny and most know full well why. The game is barely still going because of it, unlike the hot air here we can take that to be the case because of the endless droves of former players in other games and the testimony of former staff who worked on that certain 'other' title of theirs. Which was turned into such a hilarious joke it was almost worthy of its own TV show.

Legit game? What when the number of people subscribed to cheat sites for this game is a good 10x the number of players the game has ever had? You can literally go to the websites, where they post videos of their endeavours and talk about whats working and isn't; their various kill streaks and how many years they have got away with it.

I mean sure, you could say they were all making it up to suit your braindead agenda as TRspy does but when some peoples posts over there are little more than; 'hey the hacks stopped working, has their been a patch to ps2?'' followed by 'ty its working again but the auto-spotting is a bit janky still'; you really think those people are posting away for the hell of it?

Yeah ok. You people are pathetic and full of ****. About time someone called you out on how either you cheat yourselves or lack the brain power to understand how cheating becomes exponential - in order for them to compete with each other. Its not rocket science. Bye bye now o7

Hay look I respect you and your view's Plus I agree with most of what your saying that it could be hardware,ping,skill or just good luck. I know what I saw!. Now I just need to get something cleared up here. One I did not go around telling every newbie that cheating was prolific across planetside I just explained that this dose happen and what form it takes as I've seen most of it. Secondly I Never said I was "leader".
Quote
""At this rate it wont be long before a platoon loses Outfit war's cos of a cheating player/player's." Saying stuff like this is really silly, and completely unrealistic. I really hope you're not feeding this crap to the newbies you're "helping out", and if so I hope they're smart enough to realize that's not true.""

Is it really Considering that professional's risk there career's worth Million's of Dollar's by cheating? or better yet
more relevant

.

I know you're old, but I don't duel.


I don't use Linked-In, even if I did I/you could just like me to a friend/whatever. I'm not gonna reveal myself on a Planetside forum, I've literally explained I'll take your word for it, and you have more knowledge on the matter than me. I really don't care who has the bigger e-dick, if you say you know your stuff better than me, then that's great.



Now please answer my questions then?

1) How can a hacker be impossible to discover?
2) If hackers are impossible to differentiate, how do you expect the team to do so?
3) What measures would you like the team to take against these cheaters you said could not be spotted?
4) How can you suspect there's so many hackers, you said yourself you're unable to recognize them, beyond the "obvious" ones?
5) How is cancelling your membership because there's a problem you're not even sure exists sound reasonable?

Be nice, you have all the knowledge, give some to all the beta males out there!

The edit button is there for a reason, you can change your post up to 30 minutes after you posted it. I didn't hack to do so, and there's nothing wrong with doing so...?

You said you saw a "squad of hackers". Considering how likely you are to even encounter a single hacker, encountering a squad of them - it's possible, but that would be something beyond exceptional. Would have been nice if you kept linked their profiles or/and linked a video.


I'll maintain my point that outfit wars will not be impacted by cheating, most outfits don't associate with cheaters; if a cheater is in an outfit, it's a small one he made himself or with a friend(s). Not one outfit on the scoreboard has done so through cheating, I can assure you.


Cheating is pretty rare. As said before by the dev's report, even at a time where the game was doing well, cheaters consisted of well below 1% of the game's active playerbase.


Who cheats in an old, unpopular game like Planetside? As soon as a hacker gets spotted, the guy gets netbanged from every faction. Hence the reason the dude who's currently going around doing his MANA turret hack has to do from the safety of inside walls/objects. And even then, he got nuked by a friendly (OS goes through everything), and tked (by yours truly ) as soon as he set a foot out of cover. Considering how quickly cheaters are dealt with by the CS, and the welcome they get from the community, it's not a surprise that hackers don't often stick around - especially since, who's going to give them credit for hacking Planetside 2? The game is dying anyways.

My apologies, it sounded like you were leading the squad and telling them they were losing because of hackers. If that's not the case, then I'm sorry, the only exaggeration made was of the number of cheaters and the outfit wars comment.

Please do link profiles/videos of your in-game encounters next time, to reduce some confusion.

? Yea if you call four players a squad of cheater's? then yea.