[Suggestion] Please balance battle rifles

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Curved, Apr 26, 2016.

  1. Cyrax Servius

    Battle rifle= M1 Garand
    Mag Shot= Colt .45 ACP
    Scout Rifle= Ruger Mini14

    That is all...
  2. thebigbortishbort

    i don't know about that , battle rifles do better at range than any automatic weapon i can think of if used right ( arguable and depends on person) , though in that same right they aren't meant to be better than scout rifles because they pretty much are a non sniper scout rifle , if it were better ,you would be treading on the toes of an infiltrator , its niche is being some what of a mini-sniper on a class that ain't meant to be one , which is gr8 especially with engi due to unlimited ammo.

    ps , you can kill people with anything if you try hard enough .
  3. Curved

    One of my squadies told me about a twitch stream from AC's EdubsMcCool I was mentioned in and it just happened to be exactly what I was talking about in this thread. Link below. I linked his comment and if you want to watch the fight it was around 31 m. "that's what he gets for using a battle rifle" ... so true lol

  4. Erendil

    Battle rifles are still one of the worst performing primary AI weapons in the game by just about every metric we have available. The January buffs, though well-intentioned, were mostly misguided (max damage range buff excepted) and have done next to nothing to improve their performance (per Oracle of Death).

    The below graphs compare the Nyx (VS SA Scout), Phantom (VS CQC SA Sniper), and Eidolon (VS BR) - three weapons with fairly similar playstyles and effective ranges.. Both the Nyx and Phantom absolutely destroy the Eidolon. Even after the January BR buffs, it's not even close.


    Here I compare the Eidolon to the Solstice Burst (which has mostly replaced the Eidolon in my arsenal) and the Solstice (because starter carbines are also one of the worst performing due to new player stats deflating the numbers).


    Here are their KDRs, for all players and for just BR100+, taken from http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/items/weapons

    Solstice = .741
    Eidolon = .893
    Solstice Burst - 1.181
    Nyx = 1.658
    Phantom = 1.777

    BR100 KDR
    Solstice = .978
    Eidolon = 1.29
    Solstice Burst = 1.43
    Nyx = 1.911
    Phantom = 2.357

    BRs have 3 glaring flaws that are well-known to players who've had significant experience with them, but which the Devs have yet to remedy:
    1. low DPS - 1387, one of the lowest of all primary AI weapons in the game (only the Lasher is lower)
    2. high COF/bloom, leading to inaccuracy on the move and during followup shots at high ROF
    3. high recoil bias, further decreasing the accuracy of followup shots due to their semi- auto nature
    They need to fix at least 2 of the 3 before Battle rifles will become competitive options.
    • Up x 2
  5. OldMaster80

    One thing I never understood about battle rifles is this: if they're meant to be long range rifles... why 2x scopes, laser sight and underbarrel attachments?

    I still insist to use them even in close quarter but I admitt it's not easy.
  6. Naaahhhhh

    Battle rifles and semi auto scout rifles could use a buff
  7. Curved

    A significant buff to the grenade launcher could balance the gun. Something like reducing the no-explode distance to 5m, reducing the toggle time to 0.05 seconds, increasing the ammo capacity to 1+4, and completely removing the gun equip time increase. Right now the frag grenades are terrible except on engineer with infinite ammo, and even then you rarely see people do it because its only useful in large fights. Seeing as one of the classes can get infinite ammo and its not broken, the other classes would not break with more ammo. Even if I had infinite ammo on the move I wouldn't primary the underbarrel grenades. Their slow projectile travel time makes their typical TTK higher than an automatic gun and god forbid you miss and have to take two shots. Taking away all the unnecessary penalties would make the attachment useful in certain situations like when an enemy ducks around a corner. In an open 1v1 it would still be a bad option, but in a fluid situation it would add utility that would make it worth it to carry and that utility would make the BR a niche but interesting high skill option.
  8. Erendil

    I believe they were originally designed to be medium range SA rifles, given their original 500ms/ velocity and their terrible accuracy stats (which were even worse at Launch).

    Unfortunately, their DPS is WAY too low to be used at mid range without beign forced to rely on headshots (1387, only the Lasher is lower). Long range automatics are just as accurate at that range but have much higher DPS.

    Buffing the UBGL is an inteeresting idea and your changes are well-thought out, but I think it's going in the wrong direction.

    But then, I think it was a bad idea to give BRs UB attachments to begin with.
    • It changes the basic playstyle of a weapon that's been in the game for 3 years - generally not a good idea
    • It adds little to nothing for someone who's mainly interested an accurate SA rifle for non-Infils
    • 2 of the 3 classes that can use BRs already have multiple, long range explosive options available
    • Smoke interferes w/ the job of a marksman
    • It gives the Devs justification to NOT fix the obvious problems BRs still suffer from
    I will probably never use the UB attachments because it means giving up the foregrip.
  9. Curved

    Thumbs up... here's hoping they do something
  10. SpaceTimeSpace

    You seriously need to YouTube Battle Rifles for Planetside 2, aim skill is required.
  11. Psykmoe

    If we're assuming the player can aim, he'll still do better with just about any other gun, because, as coded into the game, battle rifles are simply not good weapons. I won't go so far as to say they're bad, but there are extremely few situations where you couldn't have picked some better AND more versatile gun.

    Being able to kill enemies with it doesn't change the reality of the weapon in the codebase. The flare gun can kill people.

    It has low dps, doesn't even have the bullet damage of semi-automatic scout rifles, and, most laughably, it isn't even that accurate. Any given carbine, assault rifle or LMG with 167dmg has superior accuracy on the first shot. If you try to run something like a 3.4x or 4x on a battle rifle because you know at any shorter ranges an equally skilled player with an automatic weapon will just dumpster you, you can literally get unlucky and have your shot fly past the enemy's head left or right because battle rifles aren't first-shot accurate compared to something like a SABR-13 or Gauss Rifle Burst. The Blackhand is more accurate when stationary and that's a handgun (albeit one with a long barrel).

    Hell, if you happen to be an NC medic or HA you'd be stupid to run the Warden when the Reaper/Tross/SAW have pinpoint accuracy on the first shot while having the option for fully automatic fire and comparable bullet velocities. All this for taking like, an extra bullet to kill at long ranges.

    Additionally, the various Burst variants of carbines and assault rifles, since their buffs, are capable of operating in practically the same useful ranges as the battle rifles since their first shot recoil modifier of x0.75 guarantees tight burst grouping. Additionally, the ONE THING battle rifles do sort of well, having decent ADS accuracy while moving, is also done better by Burst variant carbines and assault rifles.

    The Battle rifles aren't unusable, but they are never the best choice to make, but ALSO fail as 'general purpose/don't know what's coming' versatile picks. There's just no niche. Even a back-line repair fairy is better served with an automatic in case something sneaks up on them. I guess if you really need to aurax a battle rifle, you might do it on the HA and hope the shield advantage lets you overcome the fact that your weapon isn't that great.

    If the devs really insist of leaving battle rifles with the questionable first shot accuracy of any given TR 143dmg bullet hose, they could at least give 'em 0.75ADS to let the user dance around and make real use of the good ADS movement accuracy battle rifles do have, that deal works pretty good for the Vandal, which isn't any more accurate but at least keeps the user more mobile, does more damage per bullet, and is on a class that's designed to engineer favorable engagements for the user.

    The funny thing is, the battle rifles are more spammable than the Vandal, but battle rifles are on classes with automatic weapons that would be even better at ranges where the quicker cycle rate of the battle rifle is a real advantage over the Vandal.

    The recent buffs to it just make it look like even the devs aren't sure what to even do with battle rifles. They're just a poor fit for the game.
    • Up x 1
  12. minozake

    I switched to the Eidolon Battle Rifle last night, and my performance was far better than I've ever had with an LMG. This was using it in close quarters, corridor style fights, and long range engagements. I use the VMS 3.4x, laser sight, and HVA on it and it's something that can help me countersnipe some of the time. I've yet to find a gun as versatile as the BR that gives as consistent performance as I've achieved.
  13. PzGr

    Does it look like we'll get another change with the BRs?

    ATM it seem to work well as a cheap nade carrier. and works alright at medium range shoot outs.
  14. Kumaro

    NS Revovler. BR as a sidearm with way higher damage potential and less punishment on midrange combat. After i got the revolver the BR quickly fell behind as being a worth investment for most classes since situations change to often and the BR simply has to low damage potential to be worth unless you spend a lot of time in midrange combat and we all now this never happens for longer time periods. :/
  15. natowpnzor

    Says the guy who shows most TR stats. We all know that TR has the lowest recoil in the game, making the headshots extremely easy after a small amount of practice.
  16. Nintyuk

    I like that I can feel in control, of each bullet with the BR. Even with the burst weapons it still feels out of my hands slightly.
    • Up x 1
  17. Call-Me-Kenneth

    the only problem i see with BRs is their terrible CqC, theres no real reason as to why it sucks so much... they should add a LOW base Cof to hipfire so that you cant snipe without ADSing and a very low bloom.
  18. PzGr

    I'm fine with it sucking in CQC but the poor DPS, COF and bloom cause them to be outmatched at midranges as well. The number if shots required, and the fact that it's max fire rate is so poor, makes it difficult to use. The right bias is highly irritating.

    I got it mostly just for using the grenade launchers... Maybe I should have bought Jag for my Eng.