Playing less and less because of Air, taking an indefinite break

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Bejita231, Dec 25, 2012.

  1. {joer

    Coincidentally just after posting above, we had a sunderer camped by a lib. We got into cover, spawned 2 AA maxes, lib no more.

    Just think what we could have done with 15+ maxes... though they wouldn't fit in a sunderer... :rolleyes:
  2. -TS-

    Long enough to unload your pods on empty terrain when infantry doesn't render?
  3. Kageru

    I think air is overpowered and dual burster MAX is underpowered. But it's magnified by the game-play.

    - A dual burster max has a lot more vulnerabilities due to it being extremely vulnerable and defenseless versus any ground force. And they don't have the mobility of air to disengage or having more flexible weapon systems. These fantasies of AA MAX platoons are going to end pretty quickly when the first tank rolls by.

    - But the main problem is the base design and strategic layer. Since there's little *need* for infantry, because bases aren't terribly defensible, are open to being spawn camped by vehicles and the control / resource system doesn't really matter that much it all comes down to kill farming. And air wins in that due to it's mobility, the number of units it can strike without any possibility of retaliation, AoE capability and its durability. If air was dominant but in a more limited role it wouldn't be breaking the game as much. Same pretty much applies to vehicles.

    Maybe they'll have a strategic layer that makes sense in 6-12 months, but at the moment I expect them to nerf anything that cannot be easily dominated by air first (crown, biolabs).
  4. QuantumGuard

    Every pilot I've seen on the forums tells this line: "I play every vehicle/class, so I know what I'm talking about!". A tendency. Seems like a copypaste response.

    I don't believe you, and no-one should. If you did actually play any other vehicle or infantry, you would know the frustration of facing a lib, and god forbid two libs in the sky.

    I don't think I'm the one ignoring game mechanics here. Simply put - air is dominant. Only air counters air effectively. You cannot defend against Lib zergs. If we pull 40 Libs on you, plus ESF A2A support (even this is not needed most of the time) you cannot do anything. Ground infantry AA will not leave spawn rooms and good luck deploying Sunderer or approaching with lightnings.

    The tunnel vision here is yourth - "air is fine, air does not have to adapt but everyone else has to adapt to air (or any vehicle fo that matter)." I've posted this screen before, I'll post it again....against this you cannot do anything. Pull ESF zerg? Yeah, but that's not a ground to air counter. It shows an actual problem - only air counters air. And anyone telling you that they can hold with groups of AA Maxes was doing so against unorganized air. Until you see organized air zergs don't even talk about effective ground AA. Oganized AA > Unorganized air. Organized air > Organized AA. It's very simple.
    [IMG]
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  5. Sinoby

    Why do people keep bringing up huge numbers in attempt to prove theur point? If you with your squad of 12 players are facing 15 liberators, 30 ESFs and 20 tanks - do you really expect to counter that with 12 players? Let's translate it into sheer numbers - 12vs~80 players. Do you really think that you can win here? One can not win all the time, if you are badly outnumbered - redeploy, stop feeding them with certs.
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  6. Aelloon

    Hey, look, gunships aren't meant to be shot down by ground troops. That was the role of the ESF. But then you went ahead and complained so hard about ESFs and rocket pods that less people are playing air now, meaning that Liberators can roam free as there are less people to shoot them down.

    YOU BROUGHT THIS ON YOURSELVES.

    You have no one but yourself to blame for this. I warned you that the weaker ESFs get the more Liberators will dominate. Did you listen? Of course not. Better whine before thinking about how balance actually works.

    - A dual burster max has a lot more vulnerabilities due to it being extremely vulnerable and defenseless versus any ground force. And they don't have the mobility of air to disengage or having more flexible weapon systems. These fantasies of AA MAX platoons are going to end pretty quickly when the first tank rolls by.

    Actually an AA Max can hold its own against 1 or 2 infantry if they don't come at the same time. And, uh, they have Max charge - always gives you enough time to get into cover. Also, I was unaware that tanks can roll into and onto buildings or tight alleys or up cliffs.

    Yes, and in that game ESFs would be moving at 1000+ kph and be able to destroy an entire watchtower with a missile barrage, where every rocket pod missile would be more akin to a Zepher or Dalton hit. Oh, and they would be able to do this from kilometers above.
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  7. Sinoby

    But thinking is so hard, I'd better whine about Liberators. And when huge tank columns will be rolling around the map due to no liberators in the sky, I will whine about that too. I don't want to face and accept consequences of my whine, I just want everything that kills me netfef! /sarcasm
  8. Gavyne


    ^ Good example of a honest pilot who understands what's wrong and gave good suggestions (which I agree with) on how to improve facilities & bases. Kudos.
    • Up x 1
  9. QuantumGuard

    If only Libs countered just tanks, nobody would "whine" as you put it, LibDefenseForceGuy. Libs counter everything.
    We are bringing huge numbers VS. huge numbers, noone in their right mind would "whine" about being outnumbered like this. But you decide to see only the part of argument that fits your world view - defend air in every possible matter.
  10. Aelloon

    THIS IS A COMBINED ARMS GAME.

    If Air couldn't dominate ground and you could just stack ground to dominate everything else why would anybody play Air? It clearly needs to have an incentive and it's there: Liberators. The only counter to Liberators is air, meaning that there will be ESFs to shoot down those Liberators, meaning there will be ESFs to shoot down those other ESFs. If ground could go "lol let me take out my antiliberator rapefest on my X class" then there would be no reason to actually tactically use any air. Sure, of course you would probably have unorganized ESFs and one or two Liberators around but that's not what the game is about. Organized people would go roll only on the ground.

    The reason so many organized groups take to air is that the ground is filled with unorganized people all the time, it's much less so up there.

    Forget it, ground will NEVER be able to counter Liberators. The game would have to be radically changed where it wouldn't be Planetside 2 anymore.
  11. Kageru

    It's not a combined arms game if air counters everything but has only limited vulnerabilities in return. But it's as much because there is a minimal role for infantry.
  12. Aelloon

    And for some reason we still see armored columns and rather big infantry battles, because oddly enough, friendly air can fight enemy air and give you the opportunity to fight with your armor and infantry. That's precisely what combined arms means.
  13. Kageru

    You only have an armored column if you have air-superiority, otherwise you have a bunch of exploding wrecks. Not that I've seen a Briggs:NC armored column in a long time.
  14. Jestunhi

    For all the people saying "suck it up or quit", get a clue.

    These are forums for feedback.

    You don't want to see peoples feedback? Then quit the forums.

    When people are discussing balance, coming in and saying "it is how it is, deal with it" just look like idiots. Balancing will never be perfect and it will never stop. There will always be balancing changes, because there will always need to be.
  15. Kubor

    Since when was the ESF weaker?

    Nothing has changed. The 5% flak buff was completely negated by an identical buff to composite armour.

    A properly equipped ESF is as defensively strong today as it was on the first day of release.


    Any infantry that dies to an AA MAX dies because they're not very good at the game. Not because an AA MAX can "hold its own".

    The best thing to do is to run away if you see infantry when you're loaded out with dual Bursters. Killing an AA MAX is one of the most trivial things in this game if you're even half awake.

    That's not a complaint. I strongly believe that it should be that way. But I also strongly believe that balance discussion is not remotely helped by hyperbole.
  16. Glythe

    +1 to OP air ruining the current balance of the game. PS2 and MWO are competing for my dollar. So far I've decided the limit for this game was 1/3 of what I'm willing to spend on MWO.

    Sure thing Hoss.... just let me have 2000 points worth of upgrades to make the skyguard a terror. Let's add a second set of triple barrels, increase the accuracy so that I can hit with 80% of my shells at 500m (50% at 900m), let's increase the rate of fire by 30% and make all shots have proximity fuses (you know that old WWII tech?) along with very large clips (with slow reloads). And then we would almost be up to modern standards for AA vehicles.

    Then we would see skyguards going 170/8 like some of these pilots and things would finally be closer to a nice balance.
  17. Revorn

    Your arguments are Uhmm.. ähh.. beliving? Well ähh... and reading posts, you are quoting, arent your strength as well as it seems. I hope you dont think your Poste are taken too seriously.

    Anyway, iam easy. Have futher Fun with the Game as i do.
  18. QuantumGuard

    Your typical pilot. Cognitive dissonance. Need I say more?
  19. JooPe666

    Assuming he meant pure AA maxes, no sorry I don't see how 15 AA MAXs is a fair trade for 5 libs considering they are obviously meant to be a counter to air and have no anti-ground capability you halfwit.
  20. Grizzly-Konried

    Step 1: Come to forums and observe the numbers of posts complaining about air
    Step 2: Hop in server and observe how many people actually use AA counter measures
    Step 3: Shake head in disappointment

    Don't get me wrong, air is a real nuisance, but if you compare the number of complaints versus the number of people who actually grab some form of AA, there's quite a large gap.

    If you're whining about air camping you at a spawn, well at that point I'm going to side with the Air. Armor and Air are like choke holds in MMA; you have to prevent them from happening because once they set in, it's pretty hard to break free.
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