Planetside 2 says "This is not even my final form!"

Insert 'Leave Brittany Alone' Meme here.


Really, though. They are a developer and don't need you to defend them. They're big boys and can take a beating and also have been in 'the biz' for a decade+, and know that the more people who complain on both sides of an argument, the more passionate and, truely, the more dedicated they are. They may 'say' they hate the game, but really, it's just tough love.

There is one thing I've always found odd. Throughout Planetside 2's brief history, there have continuously been cheese, low skill, low risk, high reward, often one-shot weapons. These weapons are kind of the hallmark of the modern, low TTK FPS that many people seem to bemoan as dumbed down and terrible and everything wrong in gaming. SoE has been fairly effective in finding these weapons and bring them in line with the rest of the game. For example, anti-vehicle mines were made larger ( a bit too large honestly ), anti-infantry mines had glowy bits added, players have always been able to cert into nanoweave 5 ( though sniper rifles aren't cheap, scrub weapons ), reduced the Phoenix's anti-infantry potential and so on. There are still cheese weapons out there that could use toning down ( underbarrel grenade launcher ), but overall, SoE has been doing an adequate job.

So here's the thing. Like I said earlier, SoE has been continuously toning down these cheese weapons by making them less effective. The changes to the mines were especially good ( in approach anyway ): while actual effectiveness was not reduced, they were made easier to avoid and neutralize. Actual implementation, well, not so great. TR claymores and anti-vehicle mines, in their current state, are kinda dumb. But anyway, SoE has been taking what were once sources of essentially free kills and making them easier to counter. These are good changes that encourage more skilled play. Previously, anti-vehicle mines were so small I don't think I'd ever seen a vehicle successfully avoid one. Now, if you're paying attention, you can avoid them. This is a good thing. So to compensate for the fact that drivers are actually able to avoid anti-vehicle mines, engineers are encouraged to be more creative in placing their mines. This is also a good thing. This is moving away from the 'dumbed down' gameplay of the evil modern FPS.

So I don't get it. Are the people who constantly complain about Planetside being dumbed down for the CoD masses really the same people who are complaining about full-on farm mode weapons like pre-patch pump action shotguns getting balanced? Giving competent players who are paying attention and are playing well to avoid a cheap death is a good thing, not a bad thing.

I just don't get people.

But at the same time, OP, you have to realize that at this very moment, there is not one, not two, not even three, BUT LIKE SIX TEN DOLLAR HATS in the cash shop. That is absolutely ludicrous. Yes, those hats are optional, but this kind of exploitative monetization does not sit well with me.

Additionally, why did those cheese weapons get put into the game in broken states in the first place? It's good that SoE is continuously addressing these weapons, but being preemptive about properly balancing items, by perhaps recognizing player feedback from test servers, in the first place would've been a far superior path to take especially when considering people are dropping thousands of certs and / or $7 at a time into these things.

I'd prefer paving asphalt to the boredom of betatesting a game for free (or paying to do so). Then I can use the money i earn from paving asphalt to play a fun game instead.

While ps1 had its issues and almost no updates, it still was about a 100 times better at launch than what ps2 is today. I subscribed to that game for years. I got bored very quickly with ps2, and it does not look like the ps2 devs are interested in doing the significant changes that the game needs to be more fun. They just do bandaid fixes and nerfs instead of fixing the underlaying problems.

For me ps2 is just a shining example of why f2p games suck. Its a shame they used the planetside name for this game.

The classic f2p "trick".
1. Introduce new powerful weapon
2. Wait until the sales slow down
3. Nerf powerful weapon.
4. repeat.

Op is making the mistake that the forums represent the playerbase at large and that the devs pay any particular attention to it.

Not to say the devs don't read the forums or appreciate informed feedback but they know just as well as anyone else which threads/replys are from the trolls, agenda seekers and outright idiots so when you see a 10 page forumside barnburner just reference my sig as to how its being viewed.

Dear OP,

Thank you for generalizing an entire generation because of a couple of whiny posts you read. Allow me to do the same:

/frantic generalization mode on

Your generation can not grasp the complexity of modern days communities hence you automatically assume the guys calling the loudest must represent the community, why else would you contribute said posts and complaints to entire generation? I also see you are not in an outfit, so i take it your generation fails at playing well with others. Maybe you didn't join an outfit because you don't want to be part of the greater community,.....

On some other notes:

-Your generation supposedly raised our generation.
-Your generation was the last generation who had it better then the generation before them. Because of your lifestyle and such (assuming your not from Africa or something), our generation will have it worse then yours, so if anyone should be put on the spot, it's your generation. Current Economic Crisis: Your generation. Ecological crisis: Your generation (and the ones before you), Immigration problems (in Europe): your generation, Pension-problems in the coming decades(your(baby-booming) generation.
-The remark you made about paving highways is absurd. Like our generation doesn't have road workers?Speaking about work and labour allmost all jobs have become more complex over the years, but because of the crisis your generation caused, we get payed less to do the same or more complex work.

/frantic generalization mode off

You see, generalization is bad.. and it only proofs that maturity does not necesairily scales with age.

Now if you wanted to start up some deeper-going discussion over any topic, i would make another thread. If you just wanted to rant a bit (the thing you claim my generation does), then carry on.

In your qoute, maybe our generation is the amazing (yet different) thing and your generation just can't see it because it doesn't rhime with your 'old' ways.

"Our generation is amazing and it's being wasted on the mess the last generation left behind." - Seron

If you want "Personal Attention" for $700, try Craig's List.

It doesn't matter how many threads there are. What matters is what the metrics show. Hard data. What you are advocating is that the game be designed by committee. And not just committee, but "American Idol! You Decide America!" style committee. No thanks.

We're the exact same age. But the difference between us is the money I've spent (about 1/4 of what you have) is for services rendered. I support the game because I enjoy the game. I carry a sub specifically to help the devs continue to work on the project in the way they see fit, not because I think it should garner me some kind of special input. I don't pretend to know their game better than they do.

because whining kiddies do not know how balancing works and actually think whining threads work.

let it be then, this forum has since be my daily dose of drama.

First, wrong gen. I'm not a Baby Boomer, I'm Gen-X. Second, I said in my OP that it wasn't just here, I see it everywhere. But you're right about one thing, the failure that is the next generation falls squarely on my generation. For the most part, Gen-X'ers didn't raise their kids right. They spared the rod and spoiled the child as a rule.

Quoting ones self with a self-aggrandizing statement. Thanks for making my point for me.

This is an extremely true statement. The reality is that when things are perfectly balanced, then NO ONE will be happy. Everyone will have something to complain about.

I think it's because people have their pets they want kept strong and their pet-peeves that they want nerfed. It's a very "Me-centric" perspective. I totally agree with you on that though. Being an engineer, I totally understand the adjustments to mines and have already adapted to them. In fact, I'm one of the few who think they didn't go quite far enough with the mine adjustments - i personally think a "killed" mine should simply fizzle and not explode. This directly negatively effects my own play style but I know when something I am doing is cheesy (vehicle mining an AMS and then shooting my own mines) and am willing to take a hit for the greater good of the game. Most can't see it that way.

Man, it's a business. They gotta make money somehow. I don't fault them for selling hats. That's better than selling "Gold Ammo" (I'm looking at you World of Tanks).

You know, I don't know about the weapons. I won't make excuses for them, but I can say from my own minor experience in game development that rarely do thing work the way you expect them to in a live environment.

Only parodizing your own moralistic quote to begin with. (should have put that part in the generation-rant too)

Generalization of a generation is just bad, period.

Holy crap I just read your quote and actually stung my face with how hard a facepalm I smashed myself with.

I'm part of the 'new generation', or I guess as close as 30 is to that :| all we do is blame everyone else for crap and point fingers and play the 'poor youth' card, and then fail to vote to fix the damn problems in the first place.

Enough political talk, though, this is a forum on the internet and everyones maturity level drops about 20 years no matter what.

Besides, have you seen the WoW forums? Not even now, but like 5 years ago. It was worse. Far. Far worse.

While this is not the worst experience in forums I've had, it's definitely towards the bottom of the pile. I suppose I need to mention, to be fair, that the pile shape is very wide so there's a lot of bottom available, but not too many high points anywhere.
There are a few awesome individuals around saving the day, thank you guys.

I've already made my 'quitting PS2 forums/only logging in for passive certs' post before (though I did say I'd keep up on things, in my defense and explanation for this post!), so count me in on the 'has been turned bitter' group.

---

If you post short concise messages, you get troll responses or ones that misunderstand what you're trying to say.
If you post long messages, only a few people actually read them and they may or may not have the time to respond and when they do, their posts in turn are ignored etc and eventually all the worthwhile discussion is just drowned in the masses of bad quality posts.

In none of the cases will devs participate. That some people consider the devs are actively communicating with us is a byproduct of them happening to want the same things as the devs (and so talk about same things by coincidence). Communicating on twitter about non-game-related stuff also does not count, although I have to admit the devs are quite active in this substanceless communication.


IF we assume the devs read and keep up on the forums like they claim they do, they're going to be looking at "poll numbers", the majority opinion. They do not seem to take quality of feedback into account, just the amount.. And even then only when it suits their own needs anyway (see: pump action shotguns).

edit: as someone pointed out in thread (sorry, too lazy to arrange for a quote), the majority of playerbase are not represented on the forums. The majority are probably cool guys. In between the bad apples, the good apples and the standard apples, the bad apples far out.. outloud? the good apples on the forums, and the standard apples are just content never venturing in here to give their probabably reasonable feedback.

Communication is something SOE has never done well in their games. When things are at their worst, the ivory tower falls silent.
That being the case, I suspect it comes from someone above each team, like Smedley and his ideas of how things should go.

In EQ2, those forums often cited things posted from years before as if set in stone, and that game's changed considerably since the "No PvP Ever" statements and other absolutes from launch, so an aversion to such things could be policy. There probably would be a few less repeated threads if they just had a community person acknowledge each broad issue with a form letter, they claim to be gathering them to pass on later anyway. That would probably start it's own craziness somehow though.

These forums are actually quite good. Angst on the forums is just a manifestation of an unmet need. SOE should be smart enough to filter it through that lense. The type of angst suggests to me the game is reasonably healthy. I've seen BAD forums, and this is not even close.

Star Trek Online at launch might have been the worst I've ever seen. That should be a case study for all community managers. It was TERRIBLE. Every other thread was a "game will fail" thread. It was full of personal attacks against Cryptic staff, and even threats of real life violence against other players.

Been on the forums for about 2 weeks now. I have no realized how messed up PS2 is. Whinning, Nerfing, Nerfing-Whining, B****ing, and more bugs than anything. SOE runs into problems that I've never seen before. I wasn't into games when PS1 came out, but I'm hoping there is a time where PS2 gets as fun as people say PS1 was. SOE devs are developing a new continent, but not focusing on the continents right in front of them. I think the SOE devs need to find out the most important things to fix instead of adding a S**t load of content that they will nerf in a week.

At one point I was like Gonna need more money for this game Now, its more of "I wonder If I Can get a refund?" Almost all my weapons I've bought have changed so much, I don't even remember how they used to be. PS2 is failing, and the only reason why I'm still around is because there are still some good times I have in this game. But now these good times are diminishing really fast. This almost reminds me of Guild Wars 2. Once you got to level 60(or was it 80?) The game is pretty much done besides a few new features added.

SOE you guys need to Clear the RoadMap and start all over again. This time with a voting system, and a suggestion Forum where the people can vote down and up topics ( and not be spammed 10 times a hour).

You're blaming the devs for what the community is doing. What should the devs do? Force player to join the other factions? Or how about move X% of VS to another server? You know, I actually posted a solution to this problem months ago and I was panned by the community as being "too extreme". I no longer have any sympathy.

So, some low level coder stumbles across something, fixes it, and forgets to make a note to add the fix to the patch notes and it's "OMG THE DEVS NEVER TALK TO US!!" I don't know that is what happened, but given the lengthy and detailed patch notes that SOE does produce for game patches, that sounds like the most logical explanation. There's no reason why they wouldn't include that.

This is the thing that gets me: SOE community involvement and communication has been miles above any other development team I've ever followed. Try loving an Atari game and see how much love you get back. Seriously, this is a "No Win" scenario because whatever level of communication the team adopts, it will be immediately taken for granted and they'll be crucified for dropping below it.

I've had to rewrite this response five times because I'm desperately trying to stay civil. I will have to limit my response to this: I don't like cloakers. They gave you an SMG. I don't think you have any room to complain. At least I don't have take grief points to figure out if you're friendly anymore.

Can art survive being a commodity? I don't know. But I will say this: With out those big-wigs putting up the money first, we wouldn't be playing this game. I give credit equally to the hard-core dedicated community that stuck with PS1 all of those years and the managers at Sony who took a chance on this game. I'm thankful they both exist.

But you know, we're at the edge of a new era in game development. Crowd-funding is hitting it big and games like Star Citizen show that you don't necessarily need a giant business like Sony to bank-roll you. You just need enough people to believe in you, and that is changing the industry for the better.

I am a fan of this game. I'm an unabashed Fanboy. That makes these forums the place I belong. I'm not here to tear down the game and the devs. I'm here to cheer on my heroes. I will never understand what needs to be broken inside someone that makes them go to forums of things they hate. They don't have to like it, but they don't have to be here either.

Misquoting text? Where?

"There goes my hero - watch him as he goes. There goes my hero - he's ordinary." - The Foo Fighters

Hi, I'm also a gen-x player and I must say your way off target.

To be clear I'm 39yo. I do not see heroic efforts from the dev's. The dev's have simply ripped anything that requires thought out of the game. The gen-y folks have managed to pick up right where we need them, helping to offset the baby boomers "me first" philosophy, in the real world.

This is a game that some people are paying for they have every right to complain, that is the system and you should know this by now.

You claim they do not know what work is, but neither did we. Myself I have worked full time since I was 15yo, and m,managed to go to college. I see the same drive in many of the gen-y people.

1. not by choice
2. we're still here and paying the price, but yeah we had a good damn time. Basically we repeated the mistakes of the roaring twenties, that our great grand parents also made. Your grand kids are next in line to make this mistake, if the pattern keeps repeating.
Immigration has been a problem for many generations at least here in the U.S. this is one that will never go away.
The pension promises that have no chance of ever being payed is actually a product of the Greatest gen and the baby boomers putting off the raising of taxes to our generations. Gen-x has had nothing to do with it and will need gen-y and z to vote to fix this problem. We have been outvoted to this point and that will remain how it is for another decade at least.

3. I already covered this.

Honestly, as the first time I heard "Generation-X" I realized just how many drugs were done in the 60's and 70's. Talk about lack of imagination. I do not think your post was anything but a rebutal to the Op's weird rant, but I will not be taking the blame for what those before me ****** up.

BTW, I voted for Ross Perot since it was obvious he was the only and final chance to avoid the mess we find ourselves in today.
But the U.S. is so set to this Republicans vs. Democrats mess that only the extremists on either end, ever get heard. Meanwhile the bulk of the population is in the middle, talk about being manipulated.

Bioware forums are the worst.

And statistics alone should not be enough for the developers. They need to know what is actually happening and what people think about it in order to be able to properly interpret and compile the statistics.

Like I have most kills with the nighthawk autoshotty. What do I feel about shotguns? Do I feel obliged to use them all the time becuase they are better than carbines but dislike them? Are shotguns the most fun thing in the game and everyone would be happy if all fights were shotgun vs shotgun?