PISTOLS - Their place and value in this game. Make them more viable as preferred weapons

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Trysaeder, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. Trysaeder

    Pistols are secondary weapons that are weaker than primary weapons, which is expected, but the magnitude of the difference is relatively large compared to other games of the same type. They suffer too many handicaps that make them the least effective weapon to use against a player of similar skill. This means that they are very undesirable to use and see far less combat than primary weapons. Players who enjoy the handling of a pistol are in effect opting to use a weapon that is, in my opinion, overly inferior to the alternatives.

    Going over the factors that affect the effectiveness of pistols in combat, we can see that there's slightly too much limiting of their potential. These can be split into a few categories. Before I list them, let me make it clear that all of them should not be removed.

    1. Damage potential limitations
    • Lower DPS than every single primary weapon. This fact alone makes them weaker in direct combat and means that you are objectively more likely to lose a fight if you are using a pistol against a primary weapon user. Pistol users must seek advantages by playing better than their opponents. This becomes significantly worse when Nanoweave armour is equipped, practically guaranteeing a loss even if you have the jump on them (nanoweave shouldn't affect the head in my opinion).
    • Lower damage per magazine (except for the new TR Inquisitor) than primary weapons. A pistol user must maintain significantly higher accuracy in order to kill a target in a single magazine. This increases the skill required to use a pistol effectively against similarly skilled enemies. Unlike other games where most weapons have a similar magazine capacity, PS2 requires more shots to kill, which hinders low capacity weapons more than high capacity weapons since the extra shots comprise a larger percentage of the maximum magazine capacity.
    2. Range and accuracy potential limitations
    • Exaggerated damage falloff. A hard skill cap that reduces effectiveness at range.
    • Worse cone of fire when aimed with sights. Another hard skill cap that reduces effectiveness at range.
    • Reduced projectile velocity. Also reduces effectiveness at range, but can be overcome with skill.
    3. Flexibility and customisation handicaps
    • Only a laser sight and silencer may be equipped on some pistols. While not as severe a deficit as the others mentioned, this does discourage people from using pistols by making them feel worse by varying extents.
    • Nearly always semi-automatic. Of course this fits the construction of most pistols, but many of them have fire rates in the practically unclickable range. Being semi-auto adds another layer of tedium to using pistols, as every click impedes the ability of a person to adjust his aim.

    Looking at this list, I think the second category can be removed without a huge amount of impact on the game while improving the lives of pistols everywhere. A recoil reset rate of +12% for every pistol would also go towards improving their useability. Anyone who only uses his pistol for whatever reason would be buffed, but it's important to remember that they would be a far greater threat with any primary weapon.

    Many of the attachment options on pistols are limited to fit with their construction and profile, but I don't see why better sights should be unobtainable on them. It's a simple buff that allows players to customise the gun to their liking without affecting the stats in any way. Chuck a rangefinder or 4x scope on a pistol and use it as a scouting tool, for example, at the cost of increased draw time.

    Situations that could be affected by pistol improvements:
    • Infiltrators using Stalker Cloak (not in the game yet). The word 'infiltrator' should already scream 'less useful'. In any case, the Cloak can be balanced if needed.
    • People running out of ammo and switching to their pistols. The removal of the range and accuracy handicap and a buff to recoil shouldn't affect this too much. Regardless, I believe that a player should have a slightly fairer chance at fighting back if he's used up all his ammo. This would not change the fact that primary weapons are superior to pistols.
    I hope I've covered this in enough detail. Please leave your thoughts and feelings on this topic below.
    • Up x 1
  2. Nenarch

    ... Your saying commisioner is under powered? Really...

    Pistols are already skill based.. if you can't aim or move in close combat.

    If they buff them.. Well.. real infantry players will rock the world and everyone will be wondering why is everyone using pistols the new shotguns.. not to mention cloackers with pistols and smg's.
    • Up x 1
  3. Trysaeder

    A buff to pistols does not make them the best choice. In any situation where you're killed by one, a primary weapon of a similar style would do it faster.
  4. tastyBerryPunch

    Secondary weapons should always be just secondary weapons.
    • Up x 8
  5. KnightCole

    Dafuq is the op on about? Ps2 has the second best pistils of any game ive played.

    Pistols r quite good in this game.

    Ive killed people with them n thats sayib sumthin seeing as b4 ps2 i never took my pistol out cept by accident

    Op is a bad coming to cry.

    And np undrrboss n commisioner r kinda op imho.

    Dmg they do is nuckin futz
  6. Phrygen

    Um... just cause the new pistols are kinda under powered.. .doesn't mean pistols are bad.
  7. Trysaeder

    The relative state of balance between pistols and the alternatives is not a black and white thing as some people would think. A reduction in the number of areas where they are weaker, while keeping the important ones (damage output) would reduce the large difference between primaries and secondaries.
  8. McToast


    I think pistols are actually well balanced in PS2. The Magshot does 200 maxdamage, that is more damage per shot than most carbines and ARs have. As long as I'm getting decent fps I have no troubles killing people with my handgun. Of course it's a bit weaker than your primary, but imho that kinda makes sense. People SHOULD only switch to their pistol when the clip of their primary is spent and they have no time to reload/no ammo left.

    the Toast
  9. DeadLamb

    I'm not so sure about that.. There is impact across the entire board when you start to tinker too much with the pistols. Taking away damage fall off at range would reward players who use a pure close combat weapons a little too much.. Giving them almost no downside to rolling with a shotgun, smg or minigun being hey just use the pistol for range being it has no damage drop off.

    also would reward mid-range sniper way too much.. Miss your head shot and just hit the body? Well just quick pistol the guy being again, no damage drop off, less cone of fire.

    it would also be like a penalty to certain rifle users who are set up to engage at slightly longer range being right now there is a risk to reward factor in going with a longer range vs short range set up depending on who you might run into and need to fight. They would gain nothing from the pistol changes you mentioned but would have to deal with everyone being able to engage them at greater ranges now regardless of that other person's main weapon.

    IMO pistols are only in games to serve as a risk to reward action when it comes to reloading your main gun. It makes the reload stats for the main gun matter and all the downsides of the pistol makes the "reload the main gun" still an option for some. Removing all of those game mechanic by making pistols even better is not really a good thing, IMO of course
  10. Stromberg

    pistols are for finishing enemies off, if your mag as empty or very quickly pulling a weapon to have a chance to defend yourself if you got jumped by suprise with your main weapon not ready. they do this quite fine.
    • Up x 1
  11. Malacovics

    "I use my pistol against heavies and their LMGs outgun my pistol. Buff pls?"
    • Up x 1
  12. Tobax

    I think pistols are in a good place as they are in that they can be pulled quickly to finish off an enemy and classes like infil can make good use of them as a main weapon, but I don't think they should get any buff otherwise they will start to become more of a primary weapon and that's not what they should be. Not to mention that skilled infils are already doing well with them and with the planned change to make infil's permanently invisible if only carrying a pistol (uncloak to shoot still) that could become very OP if pistols got buffed.
  13. Rikkit

    i fine with pistols, i use them when i am face to face with an ennemy, and have to reload my primary, or I use the pistol with my infil.
    pistol + knife is a very powerful combo.
  14. Xhaleon

    Uh, I pretty much prefer that pistols remain secondaries in the truest sense of the word. There's also infiltrators to consider.

    Nothing caps a player's skill harder than his unwavering belief that some part of the game should play a certain way, and a constant banging of heads against walls because he keeps trying to use something the wrong way around.

    The pistol is weak. If you have no more rifle ammo, run away from the battle for some more. Its only there to make sure you aren't completely defenseless, and that's all there is to it.
  15. ColdCheezePizza

    pistols in this game are too good sometimes and especially now with the noobish red reticle addition that came with GU13
  16. Pikachu

    Maybe he just got his desperado and had fun with it and wants to be able to use it as his main weapon.
  17. eldarfalcongravtank

    it sickens me that vanu dont even have a reliable secondary weapon. and now you are already talking about making your secondaries more effective. you probably dont have an idea about how great your repeater and desperado already are. yes i jelly
  18. Xhaleon

    What was so bad about the Beamer again?
  19. EViLMinD

    Pistol are secondaries, but they still need to be effective in gun fights. They shouldn't always have to be the weapon of last resort. That's boring. We have pistol options because they're fun to use. I have 5 different pistols. I want to use them and not feel handicapped. They should have a proper niche in combat.

    For each of my 36 loadouts, I try to pair the primary weapon/situation with a complimentary pistol. Semi-shotguns in Amp Stations with Desperado... PAs in Towers with Underboss... Whatever feels right for the ranges I'm fighting in. What the shortcomings of the primary might be. Pistol choice is a big concern for infiltrator loadouts. If I use a sniper rifle, I'll use a suppressed mag-shot. With a smg, probably a suppressed Rebel or Commissionar.
  20. Wezdor

    What was not?