[Suggestion] Phasing out 0.75 ADS overtime.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Scr1nRusher, Jul 26, 2015.

  1. Scorpion97

    Becouse I forgot to mention something,don't be dumb please
  2. Scorpion97

    I'm glad someone is helping me to prove that
  3. Scorpion97

    The EM6 is less accurate but it compensator fixes that

    And How much does it take for you to understand that the MSW-R is the main rival of Orion?
  4. Scorpion97

    Making the Orion identical to the MSW-R is completely dull thought
  5. Scorpion97

    SVA is meant for long range engagements and if you don't know,firerate is a double edged trait,meaning it's good at short ranges but doesn't help by all means at long ranges
  6. Scorpion97

    I seriously wonder what is the "med-long" you meant?
  7. Saokeh

    People like you are strongly the reason why you don't get actual facts on the forums. A compensator is not what makes a gun THE range option versus THE cqc option. The anchor pulls up and right, the em6 is straight up. At no time does a compensator stop right pull. It's like your logic with the gd7f. Second, you can't cherry pick what gun rivals what when all are on the SAME damage model and RPM values. I mean even the Anchor and EM6 are closer in recoil with the same damage and rpm. Only difference is spa on anchor ( reason to give it worse recoil) and compensator and ammo (reason to give it no recoil up and right). The T9 Carv is pretty much the exact opposite of this example which makes little to no sense in terms of balance. It shares the same damage model and rpm with the best performing gun in the game, but has some of the worst stats. And you're reasoning is, it's a chain gun, the msw-r is the orions rival.

    And you apparently don't actually play anything but VS because the torq 9s damage model is lower compared to where it's rpm is. But has the accuracy of a medium to long range weapon. And second...the sv 88 isn't the range gun for vanu, hate to tell you. If you actually understood the way the game is designed then this sidegrade "dull" stuff you're saying, you would probably feel embarassed. As most to every gun in the SAME damage and rpm values have to be slight variants or one will be skewed to be way more powerful. Like the Orion compared to the T9 Carv.

    But why do I bother? You just don't think of facts and balance. You think in personal preference.
    • Up x 1
  8. ATRA_Wampa-One


    This is 100% wrong.

    A weapon like the Anchor with direction bias is much, much easier to control than one with no bias but almost double horizontal tolerance like the EM6, and that's without using a forward grip. It's really simple, directional bias means that when I slowly drag my mouse down to compensate for vertical recoil of a gun I also have to slightly move it counter to the direction that it's bias to. If there is no directional bias then it's balanced around having a higher horizontal tolerance or random side to side shake, however because it's totally random there is absolutely no way for someone to compensate for it.

    Furthermore, forward grips on directional bias weapons are actually much more useful.

    For example, a grip on the Anchor not only reduces it's tolerance by 0.05 and it's horizontal scalar by 0.25, but it also reduces the minimum recoil angle by 4.5 and max recoil angle by 5 which means I have to do less horizontal mouse compensation. The exact same attachment on the EM6 only gives reductions to tolerance and horizontal scalar by the exact same amount meaning that a weapon with horizontal bias gets more of a bonus from a forward grip since it's buffing two other stats that are critical to accuracy.

    This by the way is the exact reason why I've been 100% right in calling the Orion on PTS a gimped MSW-R. Not only does it still have 0.33 more in the way of horizontal tolerance (which is actually 0.03 more than the difference between the EM6 and Anchor) but by not having directional bias it's only getting 1/2 of the benefits of the exact same forward grip that the MSW-R and Anchor get.

    That's not even including things like the Orion having a worse reload speed and no SPA.
    • Up x 1
  9. Scorpion97

    While you are accusing me of ruining the game balance by thinking of my own preference,I will also say you are typically like the dude who opened a forum three days ago asking to nerf VS generally and radar closed the thread in the same day.from the first and last phrases you said,you are trying to deviate the thread's direction to make unnecessary drama to make people pissed and reply in the same way so if you want to prove your argument,first thing to do is to not say things like"people like you are the ones who don't get actual facts" IF you want to be constructive


    Anchor's recoil is better than the EM6,I don't how or why but my simple reason is that I can totally compensate it at short to medium range but EM6 as a medium to long range weapon.its recoil at medium to long engagements is higher but you are not supposed to face this problem with compensator and grip

    I still also can't get what is relevant between playing as non VS faction and the torq,this thing is supposed to be versatile becouse it has all the long and CQC range attachments and aren't supposed to have problems with 125 dmg,857rpm weapons

    SVA isn't along range gun??you are joking right
    • Up x 1
  10. Saokeh

    Again wrong. Horizontal tolerance is not worse for accuracy than pull. As this is effected directly by rpm. The higher the weapon fires the more bounce and bloom you will recieve based on values. Why would you even remotely try to say pull is better when every single accurate option in the game has little to no pull even with higher tolerance values. Laughable facts though.

    And for a gimped msw-r? This is what's happening with that scenario. You don't want a copy, as every single person fighting to keep the ads has said. And you don't want it to be inferior as you are stating. Sounds more like children not wanting the same toy as someone else but they want it to be better. Balance does not work the way VS complains. Again, a gun with the same damage model and same rpm, making one vastly better while keeping one worse isn't balance. All that's left is a sidegrade. And obviously people think that's "dull". Maybe we should just keep the best performing guns overpowered ads as it's been the top lmg for YEARS. Why? Because you don't want balance, you want the best gun on the best class. Also laughable.
  11. Saokeh

    *sigh* it's like talking to a preference brick wall. No the sv 88 is not THE accurate lmg on vs. As it doesn't have the best accuracy values coupled with rpm. Here's the thing you guys ignore, which is beyond me. Accuracy numbers are directly effected by rpm values. Pull, tolerance, cof bloom. Everything. When a gun like the EM6 has straight up pull with lower rpm tolerance is less noticable as say the same tolerance on a 750 rpm. Directional pull is unavoidable per shot as lower rpm weapons will have higher First shot recoil values. (As its shown throughout the entire game) directional pull is not nor has it ever been the accurate option even if people think its predicitable. Why? Because you don't factor CoF bloom and FSR. Both directly are worse on a gun with directional pull. So please...write in facts and not preference. Balance is very much the same thing as you can find examples in every shooter. This game is set on tiered values. Meaning you're going to get variations (sidegrades). And asking for more is not nor will it ever be balance.
  12. ATRA_Wampa-One


    Look at this wrong option yet again.

    Ask literally any of the best players in the game and they will absolutely tell you that directional pull is better than high horizontal tolerance.
    • Up x 1
  13. ATRA_Wampa-One

    Actually, just google PS2 horizontal recoil or horizontal bias and you'll find a mountain of evidence proving that you're wrong both on these forums and on reddit.

    Oh, and every single recoil stat is based on ROF... that's like the most basic of knowledge about recoil stats.
  14. Ronin Oni

    This thread is STILL going?

    I apologize to everyone, if I hadn't replied with this it's quite likely this crap thread would have been properly ignored, but my taunting has apparently fired off a rather unworthy discussion.

    I owe you all a great debt... I am forever sorry
    • Up x 2
  15. BaronX13

    What are these?! Facts?! Unbiased pieces of information?! BEGONE FROM MY SIGHT. HOW DARE YOU BRING LOGIC INTO THIS!

    Why don't you guys understand?! If only we could change the .75ads weapons into completely different weapons instead of just making the few minor tweaks that would make them equal to their counterparts, we could all be happy. And don't try to pretend that the Orion is supposed to be compared to the MSW-R, its obviously supposed to be compared to the Rhino...or whatever other gun fits my opinion at this moment.

    Now, please present your arguments that agree with my point of view. If you don't, that's ok, but I'm just going to reply with some more nonsensical stuff and rage on my keyboard.
    • Up x 3
  16. Saokeh

    No it's not haha. You are talking about cqc discussions. This has nothing to do with overall range accuracy. As every single inaccurate option in the game comes with high directional pull. Why are you even trying to argue that? Because they are harder to maintain on a moving target at range. While bloom, and hori can be countered by tap firing. Why do you think NC has some of the most accurate guns even with extreme bloom multipliers? Oh i know...they have straight up recoil meaning tap firing with high FSR is more predictible with body to headshots You guys are hilarious.
  17. ATRA_Wampa-One


    You mean like the NS weapons that all have directional pull yet are among the most accurate weapons in the game by design to compensate for their low DPS?

    And NC have the only non infil weapons in the game with zero first shot deviation (200 damage weapons), that's why they're so accurate. It's trivial to counter snipe someone with the Gauss Saw by simply tap firing at range due to that. Of course, the trade off for that was that you had to stand still to see much of that bonus, but at least on LMG's that's scheduled to getting buffed.

    Also, still waiting on you linking literally any thread that talks about how horizontal tolerance > directional bias.
  18. Saokeh

    Ns directional is so minimal with low rpm like i was talking about that accuracy is viable. But ns weapons are still not the most accurate guns due to that pull with horizontal bounce. Its not the bounce that makes it less accurate, every player that uses them knows the directional pull is the problem. As for horizontal tolerance, that's not nor has it ever been the factor for medium to long range accuracy. Why do you think people complained about NC accuracy for years, because it straight up recoil. The guns that have hard directional are the least guns used per faction for a reason. The only difference is the damage model coupled with rpm. As does first shot recoil factor. The main driving reason to your "top end" users is because the BG and Orion. As they are directional. But then again, they aren't your most accurate lmg.

    Every single gun with directional pull are cqc based and are known for it.

    Gd22, gd7f, hv45, serpent, cycler trv, lynx.
    Lmgs Anchor, mwsr, orion.
    (All extreme cases)

    They have directional pull and are considered the worst accuracy at longer ranges. Why? Because of that exact directional pull.
  19. ATRA_Wampa-One

    NS weapons have such a minimal horizontal bias they have basically the same amount of bias per shot as every other weapon in their class with horizontal bias, got it. Also... ROFL about NC complaining about accuracy when they have the majority of the most accurate weapons in the game, including the most accurate cqc LMG... which has a horizontal bias.

    Anchor lifetime accuracy: 22.5%
    MSW-R lifetime accuracy: 20.3%
    Orion lifetime accuracy: 19%

    Oh I know, lets look at the Polaris vs T16 since the Polaris has a horizontal bias while every other ADS accuracy stat is the same between them!

    Polaris lifetime accuracy: 21.2%
    T-16 lifetime accuracy: 19%

    Oh and you really need to check your data again because the Orion/BG doesn't have directional bias, and neither does like half of the SMG's in the game which are literally the definition of cqc.

    Keep digging though, you're almost there.
  20. Saokeh

    Hahaha i said people complain about NC accuracy. Not NC complaining as they are more accurate due to not having much directional pull with low rpm.

    And yes the orion has directional pull lol. Hold the trigger down and see if it goes straight up. It bounces left and right but bullet spread goes one direction.

    Here let me give you an example since you're hilariously arguing game mechanics.

    Every gun i mentioned are not the best at range. And are known not to be. Is it because of horizontal tolerance? Nope because those I mentioned have mediocre tolerance compared to guns with high rpm.

    Heres another example, pulsar c, cougar, acx 11. All are the most accurate guns in carbine category. Their hori tolerance is actually a bit on the high side. While their recoil patterns are typically straight up. Soooo if directional pull is less a factor as you say. Why do all the go to mid to long range guns have practically zero directional pull and the least accurate at range do?