If you are here to post about pay2win, go away. While i acknowledge that this issue is closely related to that topic, if you're to post mindlessly your complaints OR justification for how current micro-transation mechanics reward paying players without any connection to the thread's topic and/or without reading the thread; You WILL be reported. For derailing the thread and making off-topic. I was wondering whether to post it here or in off-topic forums, yet it's related to this game's gameplay and this forum is clustered with "buff, nerf, OP, UP, rant" threads and so i think that one topic that's not about it is always a good thing. (Tbh there are actually many game related topic's in off-topic section, for e.g. there's a distinct lack of [media] forum that would be good for both players and PR). One of arguments that i see often is that this game is "pay4time", that you pay for ability to circumvent grinding mechanics. That it's a good thing. Back in ultima times, eve beginning (actually it haven't changed when it comes to eve) and so on, ability to "grind" faster than others thanks to non game related factors was generally frowned upon. It was almost always the other way around when it comes to kid's with parents funding their entertainment, that haven't changed. Yet people that work for their dough or value their money more were never eager to make disparity between those with more cash and those with less cash. We come to the game to "disconnect" from our daily word, from our daily problems and from our status. We build our avatars and social connections more or less from zero (Some social recluses find a new place to belong to : P ). F2P is not really a new model. Paying for power, to win, etcetera is also not a new thing. The scale is now different, sure, but it's not new. But in earlier days of F2P even if you could buy power, you couldn't've bought the time! Sure at certain time "newbie" help programs were introduced, p4p was and is something that no one likes, but buying time was unthinkable. FPS games rely on skill and equality, true. But MMO games rely on grading systems. In FPS games, having stronger older experienced players in the game meant that it was/is harder for new players to start, paying for "time" helps with that issue. But on the other hand, MMO games with persistent world cherish growing dedicated communities. Equality there lies not in power but in justice among different players that's measured by their dedication and affection with the game. These are the players that commit the most to others gaming experience. F2P is not exactly an old model either. Playing games mean paying for them, one way or another. That would normally be counted into the game's price. That's not the case here. So what? Well, we can pay for power, that's been discussed many time and that's not what we're talking here about; We can also pay for content, now i was always a strong believer in that ( if you ask me, weapons etc. should be buy-able with certs only while new continents, hossin and searhus should be accessible for premium users only; then maybe the sixth would be made open for f2p players. That ofc won't happen, at least not until they merge servers. That's also my own opinion and not what this thread's about, so... moving on). Recently, something new has shown on horizon and that is what people refer as to "paying for time". I believe it have a strong connection to what we call casual players. They don't have much time to play, they don't want to get attached. They don't feel like grinding, but they have bucks. They have bucks, yet they chose to play free to play games. And that's perfectly understandable so far, looking at how the gaming industry works today. Grinding, NO ONE likes it. Every player wants to get rid of it. Yet there are many ways to do it, of course i'm not saying other ways are always or in general better. Some people even want everything now and here, they don't know what balance is and that if every one has everything and everyone gets more power it doesn't help with anything. But is discriminating devoted players a good way to go? And... if we'd chose other way around with paying for the game, would that be worse or better for those that like to go deeper into the game? Let me tell you a short story here, about what "noob" used to mean a dozen years ago. I don't know what are the origins of this word, i'm talking strictly about gaming communities and those that i was connected to. At that time many of mmorpgs were strict grind fests. Actually, there weren't many players talking bad things about new players or even griefing them. Sure there were some elitists and some griefers but new players haven't had much power it those systems and every one understood more or less what being new to the game means. Not every one liked them but there was no need for hostility towards them, they wouldn't even be able to come where higher lvl players were. At certain point, game devs decided that it is too hard for new players to get accustomed and so they decided to make some starter helping programs yet they were far from mentor-pupil systems that we know today. They were flawed, either because of indirect p4power, unbalanced mentor reward systems or RMT. New players were now able to power level. Power levelling is the act of being levelled extremely fast by a higher lvl player. Normal players around lvl 50-70 weren't eager to do it. There were many reasons why, sometimes they hadn't felt like paying money for leveling when they'd already found their niche in the game and saw no need to. Some felt like it was cheating. In some game's it wasn't beneficial enough for mentor to level a lv50-70 player to start with. And many more. Noob was a word for a new player that got plvl and started destroying medium levelled players fun (well, if you can call another holy war with countless mobs "fun", yet still making it even harder isn't fun either). These plvled players were mostly kids with crooked mentality that didn't know the hardship of earning something in the game, they were annoying, and seen themselves superior to others. They were somewhat similar to what we call fourth faction here in PS2. They knew no commitment. We called them noobs around where i played. Later at some point, they themselves started calling others noob in a childish fashion ("you're stupid", "no you're stupid!"). This term begun to be applied to every new player, and not always in derogative manner. Some not so bright yet very kind people saw the problem and wrote articles about it, they tried to coin the term newb'ie as a not derogatory term for new players (again, "newbie" was know probably before "noob", i'm talking about how it all came to gaming) it was mildly popular short after but it never really stuck for longer and only led to further misconception about what "noob" used to mean. So, what do you think about paying for time? If you like it, then why, and how do you justify it? What are your concerns and if you're against, what alternatives would you propose? Please note that i've tried my best not to tackle on p4power etc. issue and i would be happy if you could also keep it to minimum. Did you read the whole thing or just the first and last paragraph ;] . Ps. sorry for my poor engrish.