[BUG] Out of all the things that need balancing ...

You're asking me why they added a Broken Weapon?

I am not privy to what goes on with PS2 Devs. If I have to guess it would be "general incompetence". Though it might be "favoritism", "ego", "laziness", "budget", "politics", "bad management"... or some combination of all of the above.

Sure, go for it. I would nerf them too.

You obviously are the type of player who just wants to have it easier for them to win. Your type doesn't care about "balance" or actual "competition". I would segregate the players into those who want a balanced game, and those who want a broken game: why force these to player groups together when they want to be playing very different games?

When it comes to OP Broken stuff in the game, there are generally 2 *healthy* options:
1) remove/nerf it
2) make it equal access to all Factions so it doesn't warp Faction Balance

I don't care what color a gun is, what sound it makes, what it looks like, what numbers appear on different sections. If players want those shuffled around to give some sense of Faction diversity then by all means: go for it. I think that's neat and fun... and harmless.

But I do care about how that gun performs on the battlefield and how it fits (or doesn't fit) and balances with the rest of the game.

So we'll give NC a Gatekeeper... but we'll call it Freedom. And we'll make it shoot a blue bullet and not have that pulse thing. The gun itself will only have a single barrel, and the firing rate will be slightly lower (same velocity), but it will do slightly more damage with each hit. It will have a small Mag size, but roughly the same Damage/Mag. Presto, Faction Diversity.

Meh, we will just go back to our good old OP Vulcan and if that fails there is always the NS Halberd. So sure, nerf it all the way to the PPA levels, it won't change that we still have very viable top guns and whatever scrubs think that the GK somehow was a god given gift to TR will die as much they always did to our other topguns, so give them comfort that this evil will be banished and us devils will continue to ram you over the barrel...
All Hail the Terran Republic first of its name, the unfarmed, lords of Esamir, lords of Indar and the first beta players, lords of the great grass Amerish, breakers of meta and the fathers of scumbags!

The key factor in Gatekeeper's huge affect on the Battlefrield is its roles as Easy To Spawn & Spam Extreme Range AV. If you reduce the range of the Gatekeeper to that of the other MBT Secondaries and Harassers Weapons, then suddenly Gatekeeper becomes much less of a factor on the Battlefield. TR is reduced to Striker as it's only Easy To Spawn & Spam Extreme Range AV.

This is a good point which is often ignored - an example of this phenomenon is the Halberd stats. With EXACTLY the same weapon, it has far more kills on VS and NC MBTs than the TR - if you look at the stats in isolation, you would nerf the VS and NC versions as they score 50% more kills.http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=kpu&weapon1=3441&weapon2=3709&weapon3=4015

FWIW - my major beef with the GK is it's extreme range accuracy and sustained DPS at that range. The recoil added to the Harasser version stopped this from happening - exactly why they didn't do the same to the Prowler version is a mystery.

What's sad is your common theme of whimsical fantasy that only the TR spawn camp with MBTs and that somehow EVERY TR WIN EVER KNOWN TO MAN is because of MBT spam, and specifically the GK and its anemic TTK.

Or as an alternative you could go, and take your blanket statement, faction fiction with you.

Really???? Who would have guessed you have Even MORE to whine about???

jesus not another GK thread...

I will admit I can see how the Gatekeeper on a Harasser can harder to deal with than on a Prowler. The Harasser is nimble enough that the cover peeking strategy that breaks up the Gatekeeper's constant ranged firing and weakening its already graduated damage model isn't nearly as viable. That does, however, expose the weakness of its graduated damage model because the solution is often going to involve a closer encounter to seal the deal, unless there isn't anything to duck behind. Anything that can hit the Harasser like a brick wall is going to outweigh any benefit the Gatekeeper might have afforded at that range.

I regularly experience this from NC and VS attackers too. Tanks (and sometimes harassers) OP plz nerf

I do own and frequently use the Striker.

It is not as effective in AV as you think it is.

Its main advantage is its versatility. I certed it as my only launcher primarily because it is a cert-efficient weapon that gives me more capabilities for fewer certs.

If you've ever read any of my posts, you would know that I consistently advocate for balance and try to avoid NERF/BUFF wars and favoritism.

My point about faction diversity is that it makes the game more interesting. Let me give you a related example:

Personally, I TR main, and as such, I find Magrider's being able to go up hills and spam over walls into bases and spawn rooms really annoying. But I tolerate it, because the Magrider has trade-offs that account for that, and it gives the VS a unique tactical ability that fits into their overall doctrinal meta. If people that play VS want to simply ignore that ability and yell constantly "PROWLER OP IN HEAD2HEAD" then that's their right, but there are many places on the map that have terrain advantages that Mag-riders could exploit, but I continually see them not flanking and instead playing regularly. They're ignoring a potential advantage and then complaining that they can't get an edge.

This is how that exchange has unfolded, generally:

The proposition that is then offered is that "Mag-rider should have same stats as Vanguard/Prowler"

Me: "Ok, but then you'll have wheels and won't be able to strafe. Sound fair?"

Response: "No, we're keeping strafing and mobility. It'll be balanced because VS Top-guns Suck"

Me: "But if the VS top-guns get changed in the future, won't that make magrider OP?"

Response: "No. Prowler will always be OP, Vanguard will always be cheese! Buff Maggy!"

Me: "Didn't you advocate for adding better VS Top Guns in the same thread though?"

Response: "Yes, but they won't do it."

Me: "How do you know it won't be an overhaul patch for Maggy? And are VS Top-guns really that bad?"

Response: "I just know!"


With the Gatekeeper, yes, it is pretty good at long range AV work. But it has caveats to it. Its hard to adapt it to fighting infantry that aren't camping, particularly close in, mobile infantry, and while it has a low TTK, it has low alpha damage compared to other AV weapons.This limits some of its tactical usage compared to weapons like the Halberd.

This is also one of the reasons it has such high accuracy, because if you induce too much CoF, the weapon loses power, and becomes mostly useless. That said, I'm not entirely opposed to tweaking the bullet drop. But from a standpoint of "Nerf it into the ground or give it to everyone" my response is still hands off.

If you want to be rational about it and discuss specific changes and how it would affect the weapon, that's good. If your response is a childish "GIVE ME TOY OR I BREAK TOY" then leave the gatekeeper alone - you'll just end up causing more problems by swinging the pendulum back to your favorite faction/skub/toygun, at which point the concerns some people have for balance tend to conveniently evaporate.

Spoken and sounding like someone whom has little experience across all factions. If you had only done the roof sitting and the very small few spots within the game on mountains that the other MBT's can get to for the most part. When a Mag is on the roof of a building they are extremely vulnerable because they cant look directly down, they are asking to be blown up.

Vets usually don't get flanked... maybe by harassers if they extend themselves.

Oh that one's easy - so much so that I can do it in one word (which is technically two words but ignore that).

Tankbuster.

Have you ever timed how long it tans lakes to get 2 people to a safe location to pull an aircraft that can withstand a zerg, find said vehicle, then destroy it?

Yeah this is the common theme from the PaCR who don't want there op cannon of doom touched, they know it doesn't make any sense but have to try to come up with something.

I have massive number of hours in all but the first version of the Striker (the OP one that everyone complained about). The Striker *is* as effective in AV as I think it is.

I am not talking about KILLING Ground Vehicles, I am talking about POKING them and making them move. Disrupting their formations. Striker and Lancer are great at poking Ground Vehicles from extreme range, and getting those Ground Vehicles to move off of strategic positions. NC does not have an extreme range poke tool to make Ground Vehicles abandon strategic positions.

I have used Striker at extreme range many times to push an enemy Ground Vehicle Zerg off a facing of a TR Base they were Zerging. This then allowed ally forces to break out (or counter attack) along that face. I have also used Striker at extreme range to push an enemy Ground Zerg off a facing of their own base. This then compromised enemy Ground Vehicle support in that area, and allowed allies to push over that area. I have also used Striker at extreme range to knock out Base Turrets and sparsely populated Sunderers and fallback Sunderers. I have done the same with Lancer. I cannot do it with NC.

I appreciate and applaud the concept of "balance tuning". However, SOE/DBG have consistently demonstrated they do not have the aptitude for balance tuning: they take far too long to do it, and the results are not good. SOE/DBG are consistently most effective when they nerf the OP thing into oblivion and then let other Units/Weapons/Certs fill in that things role.

I don't like it. But that's the reality of it. And so I advocate that they use the process that they have consistently demonstrated to be the most effective with.

In addition, the notion of "*** for tat" which is argued on these forums does not belong in PS2 with regards to OP issues. If a Faction/Unit/etc. loses an OP item, they should not (on a power level) and cannot (within the aptitude of the Devs) be compensated for that loss. On a power level the OP thing is being removed, the game is being balanced, and they are gonna take a hit to overall power in order to bring them back in line with the other Factions' power levels. On a Dev Aptitude side, PS2 Devs are consistently terribly slow and terribly reliable as a group to tune anything, so it has to be the nerf hammer for reliable and quick solutions.

I also loathe Mag as an Infantry. Is this current crawler Mag even good for the game? You can have Faction diversity without giving gamebreaking abilities to only one Faction. And the notion of exploring asymmetrical balance by moving specific counters to specific Faction abilities is flat out beyond the ability of PS2 Devs to handle.

And PPA was a nightmare. Do you really want the Devs to bring the PPA back? Do you really think they have the aptitude to buff VS Top Guns without doing a change that is UP or OP? The new team is better in balancing, but they are still crazy slow, there is still tons of unbalanced stuff out there, they still add broken stuff, they still take up dev time to add stuff for a small % of the users, they are much worse on talking to the community, and I still don't trust them. I literally couldn't log on all day yesterday and so far all day today because of the error in my Sig. There is a reason why I am excited to kill my Membership when the year runs out... and I don't think they even know or care what that reason is.

The only thing that matters is either (1) remove Easy To Spawn/Spam Extreme Range AV from all Factions, or (2) add Easy To Spawn/Spam Extreme Range AV. Because right now it is butchering gameplay.

I don't care if Gatekeeper is changed to be a CQC or medium range top Stat Performer. We just can't have this Easy To Spawn/Spam Extreme Range AV imbalance.

My preferred faction is TR. I play it the most. It's not like I want these changes because it's going to boost my Faction's power level. I want them because it makes for a much more playable game. I don't spend much time in Ground Vehicles and have rarely ever died to the Gatekeeper, but I have seen the power imbalance of the current distribution of Easy To Spawn/Spam Extreme Range AV, and it's terrible. Easy To Spawn/Spam Extreme Range AV is not something that should be a Faction Trait.

Don't be silly. Nerfing these types of OP items has never met with "causing more problems". Do you regret the more problems caused by the nerf of the Zoe? Banshee? Rocket Pods? Splash Prowler? PPA? Which one has you still saying "boy, if only we had that one back, then things would really be fair and more fun for everyone".

If I *thought* DBG Devs could handle balance (or listen), I'd go in game, run stats and tests, and find a way to change Gatekeeper to not be gamebreaking and still be good/useable. But that's not how DBG works. I've done such things in the past, and they don't listen. I worked on Vanguard as an Associate Designer and I had meals with leads or asked for meetings and sent them spreadsheets of data analysis (that other Designers recognized as showing issues)... and NADA.

You have to deal with the cards that you have. And for SOE/DBG Designers, that is to keep it simple and blunt: kill Gatekeeper... or give the same "Easy To Spam, Vehicles Based, Extreme Range AV" to all 3 Factions.

Make the enforcer practically the same drop/velocity as the gatekeeper.

Give the saron a slightly less punishing cof bloom and a little less drop off at range.

Now everyone has a long range tedium creator: done.

Neither does it tell you the rate at which each weapon's user loses their unit getting those kills, the KDR of the weapon.

How many ants/stealth sundies do you know just stop and do nothing as soon as the see an opposing mbt?

None except those facing prowlers. They can just run away.

I don't know how many times I have run into prowlers shelling my ant with GK and AP so I just sit there. Its really stupid. I can at least try to get to safety from a magrider... from a (GK/AP) prowler? Nope. Three seconds... wiped. Maybe 5 with shield

The problem with GK isn't damage but skill floor, something not easily displayed by a chart.
It's not hindered by tank's main cannon and the least by its movement, no accuracy downsides.

The amount of bullet drop is completely predictable and allows for shots over cover.
It's not even enough to limit the range to begin with.
Render distance is a thing and users don't have 12x scopes on gunner seat for the projectile to go offscreen.

Placed on a Magrider with that instability the GK becomes completely balanced.
It simply doesn't fit with Prowler's strengths, it overlaps and you get two of the same piece to a puzzle.
Completely setting aside the Magrider's need to slide around, guess what happens when it rotates to aim?
Hint: The gunner mount isn't in the same center of rotation.

Start with adding recoil and it's suddenly much better.
The only thing "killed" by that is some fat off the user's mouse arm.
Enough recoil to require some focus and there's no need for bullet drop or spread.

That's because no one is forced to engage the moment you break cover, they fire after you're too far out to get back.
There is no way to constantly have cover unless you have the longer effective range, which Prowler gains from relatively high damage consistency, less punishing misses.

mate gatekeepers not op, just really, really annoying to get plinked by.

Honestly though the halberd is infinity better if you have a good gunner.

if they are going to try and make it less annoying give it more projectile drop.

Pretty sure the only thing way out of balance is the lack of crying from TR players. Everyone else has amazing stuff and constantly makes threads to try to further their advantage, even denying proof they were wrong the form of stats.

I have a problem with the GD-7F being equivalent to arguably the best AR we have the Cycler TRV but being used by two classes instead of just medics. I couldnt for the life of me figure out how it was balanced to our guns Stat wise, other than 10 extra rounds. Didn't make a bunch of threads about it even though I felt like in the hands of a good player it's almost unbeatable.