[Suggestion] Other Infantry Mines to Get at Par with Claymore

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Armcross, Oct 10, 2016.

  1. FateJH

    I'd actually be interested in seeing them go an opposite direction for this.

    In PlanetSide Classic, a somewhat luxurious combat technique involved putting a Spitfire turret into a sensitive location like just outside of an exterior door and then concealing a HEM (High Exploive Mine) underneath it. Spitfires had enough explosive blast that being close to one when it was destroyed kills, though you can walk up to them safely in a number of situations without them opening fire. HEMs don't necessarily kill a target on triggering, but they do trigger by proximity, and they also destroy Spitfires on explosion. Together, the result is an unsuspecting mined turret that kills on proximity such as when a door (Classic had those) opens by an enemy. We have a similar method of combining C4 with proximity-triggered mines to deal with more resilient targets like MAXes.

    What I mean to convey is not the method of combination but the inherent trap-ability. While I do not think it's necessary for both kinds of mines to go down this same path, my suggestion is to increase the stock holding of mines and decrease the unit cost for either NC or VS, or both. This allows for the potential of trap production methods whereby "running through the mine" isn't nearly viable. Moreover, if they wish for the mundane "stack of two kills" approach, they can go down that path too, with no greater cost than that of a Claymore.
    It's visible enough when you approach it from a direction that doesn't trigger it or see the lasers. Bouncing Betties and Proximity Mines do a better job at blending into some interior environments from a distance (the lights only become visible until you are fairly close, virtually enough to trigger it). Ignoring its standing height, the red of the Claymore stands out from most environments. The triggering requirements also virtually enforce sneaky positioning rules.
  2. Armcross

    It already does. We just place it to hard to see area.
  3. lothbrook

    Simpler solution would be to just increase the damage dealt by BB and Prox mines so that the kill range is slightly larger, the number of times its used as a grenade isn't really common enough to care, as its primary use to lock down doorways and corners is ineffective because if you just don't stop sprinting they almost never kill you. Another option would be to make the detonation instant.
  4. Moz


    You lie!
  5. Savadrin


    I have more than twice as many proxy kills as claymore kills.


    I'm guessing it's product placement. Not my fault that folks don't know how to effectively place betties or proxies, but they work just fine. You want to be sad and nerf the Claymore? Be my guest, I'll still get kills with them. Perhaps the faster trigger is because we only get 50% max coverage.


    Greater Min/Max in a significantly smaller area. Faster detonation because the area that triggers the mine is tiny in comparison.

    Maybe players are just bad at clearing doorways before they run through, and the ones dropping proxies and betties don't understand how to place them in doorways as well?


    That is really only true based on where you lay the mines. It's considerably harder to hide a claymore on a terminal than it is with a proxy or betty. Again, I have many more proxy kills than claymore, and all it took was a little creative placement.


    If they're such a problem, run EOD HUD.
  6. Ziggurat8

    So you think you should run third party software to overcome something in the game. Essentially giving you an edge over players without that software. Hmmm. Maybe I should run a third party aim bot while I'm at it. That way I don't have a problem with trying to hit enemies either.

    PS4 is the way to go. Can't turn off smoke, or foliage can't add custom HUDS that make **** light up that shouldn't be lit up. Can't use aim bots or change hit boxes or any of the other crazy hacks PC is plagued by. Just pure planetside2 exactly the same as every other player in the game.
  7. Ziggurat8

    Twice as many kills means nothing. I have 6x as many kills on my VS as my TR and 8x more than my NC. I guess it means VS is 6x more powerful. Or, it means I've played my VS way longer. I have 12% less deaths to NC than TR. If mines were balanced I should only have ~12% difference in deaths between them. Not 90% like it is.

    What is your kill per use? That is far more telling of the effectiveness of mines.
  8. Armcross

    No, it an implant.
  9. Savadrin


    lol you're talking **** and don't even know what EOD hud is. Go home.
  10. Savadrin


    My point is that they're plenty effective for kills if you actually know how to use them. But you sound like a person who likes to blame the tool instead of the guy using it. Do you hammer screws into your walls?
  11. Ziggurat8

    PS4 has no implants so no, don't really know what that is, assumed it was an overlay of some kind.

    Whatever, every non TR in the game thinks claymores are better, every TR thinks claymores are the worst. It's just silly.
  12. ColonelChingles

    Doesn't matter what people think... the statistics tell a very clear story.

    The Claymore gets 33.3% more kills per user than the next strongest AI mine.
    The Claymore gets 32.4% more kills per hour of use than the next strongest AI mine.

    That difference is enough that it should create some red flags that the Claymore is indeed overperforming.

    Another example of why statistics trump personal anecdotes any day.
  13. Savadrin


    Every faction is the same in this.

    Of course. This is our culture, dumb everything down to the lowest common denominator.

    You could give the claymore matching damage and it would still be the same because of how it has to be placed. You actually have to think while placing it because of its directional nature, not just "oh **** it drop it wherever it won't work anyway." The lack of thought directly translates into the trap not working.

    Same concept of why the Vulcan has better stats while being a worse gun than the Aphelion, but in reverse. It's impossibly stupid point and click. In good hands the Aphelion shines, but it's usually not in good hands. So you give the mouthbreathers a Vulcan and it does well. You ask them to meter their shots and use a burst, and they balk.

    That's what performs well and evenly for the masses. Simple and stupid.



    edit for clarity.
    • Up x 1
  14. Ziggurat8

    Uh oh. You invoked stats. Here comes the arguments about asymetrical balance and how it's fine they get kills more often because something else in the TR arsenal is less effective than the other 2 empires so it makes up for it. Except that nothing really springs to mind. The Lasher? TR needs better claymore because of that? Or the Scatmax? Maybe it's how poorly their MCG performs. I'm sure that's it.
  15. ColonelChingles

    That concept of asymmetrical balance is the wrong one. It's not like faction x should have stronger a than faction y which has stronger b. That's a poor model because in some cases a might be stronger or have more utility than b, or with continent bonuses you might see a ton of a due to reduced costs.

    How asymmetrical balance should work in PS2 is that different factions might have different weapon systems, but on average these weapon systems should have about the same effective performance. A Vulcan-H has a different damage model than an Enforcer-H, but overall their vehicle kills per hour should be about equal. Weapons should be adjusted until their performance falls into that equivalent range.

    But that's hard, and requires constant tuning. It's much lazier and easier to hand out OP things that you don't have to balance because the other side also has OP things. :rolleyes:
  16. LodeTria



    The lights on betties/proxys seem to render at 20m, although this might be based on graphics settings.
    Claymore lasers render at less than 5m, and are extremely faint. The lasers have such poor visibility they might as well not exist.
  17. Shadowomega

    The biggest issue with Claymores is they detonate through walls, so by placing it facing a door at a 45 degree angle, the Claymore will trigger as the person enters the doorway without the person ever seeing the mine.

    There is also a couple videos showing people placing the mine facing teleporter rooms and having it kill people inside.
  18. Armcross

    That is why we have our tradition.



    I would like to try that.