Orion VS54 /SVA-88 /Betelgeuse 54-A

"Screwed for Orion,SVA and BG
Balanced for anything else"

No... I'm pretty sure it's called balance. It's not a blanket nerf dude. They're taking away the 0.75ads, but compensating that nerf with buffs to hipfire, bloom and recoil control. Hence, the word 'balance'.

Also to fix the problem that the Betelgeuse far outclasses any other directive weapon in the game by tenfold...

you only hipfire at 5 meters with LMGs,the least valuable thing to buff
Horizontal tolerance is still less than MSW,still needs another boost
540 is a carbine muzzle,NO logic to be an LMG's at all
And again ADS COF buff is a general buff to most of the LMGs and not VS only
ADS bloom was never a problem in this game (even with flash suppressor) so this is a useless tweak

Your argument is invalid,just overestimating the VS

I say just let VS have their special 0.75 ADS and just buff the TR and NC weapons. Give the NC and TR the 0.75 on their LMG also. Problem solved.

Yeah, because the TR/NC CQC LMG option are doing sooo much worse than the VS 0.75 ADS ones.*

Overall Average KPH:
Orion: 25.87
SVA-88: 39.55
Anchor: 43.33
MSW-R: 36.04

Overall Average KPU:
Orion: 12.54
SVA-88: 24.2
Anchor: 25.62
MSW-R: 18.84

BR 100 Average KPH:
Orion: 44.1
SVA-88: 44.59
Anchor: 53.26
MSW-R: 51.24

BR 100 Average KPU:
Orion: 22.62
SVA-88: 23.17
Anchor: 29.12
MSW-R: 24.68

The Irrational 0.75 hysteria is the only reason why the Orion and SVA-88 are getting nerfed, or to quote Malorn himself:

https://np.reddit.com/r/Planetside/...12_or_09_of_this_community_knows_what/ctrgxc2

*I will say that the BG is overperforming, but that has much more to do with the heat mechanic since literally every other 0.75 ADS weapon isn't over performing by that much except maybe the cyclone.

is there a specific link to this comparison, because the link below apparently doesn't take me to this.

the Orion is still the best LMG in the game. Hands down,

<a href="http://ps2alerts.com/top10"that orion</a>

If you looked carefully at the top 10 weapons,you will notice that most of them are default ones which means that The problem isn't because of someone who move faster but becouse of the concept of making such LMG as default.and WE all said it before "just simply make the LSW the default weapon and notice the difference"

It wasn't until nerfs did make it faction specific.

Plain and simple: With the removal of .75 ads, what will become of the Orion or the VS? It becomes a lesser form of the MSW-R, which raises the new question, what is so UNIQUE about the VS? So far, if this change were to happen, the VS would be a useless faction that can't measure up to either the NC or the TR.

its just a small change, also VS already have low to none bullet drop, fast reload, and some of the VS guns have way too fast RPM almost to the point of TR if not faster, play on both NC and TR for 3h's as a heavy and see how they perform, then tell me that this isn't fair, again its just a small change. and the VS SMG's are really good if its your play style, the factions are about play style and ideology: do you like lasers and mobility play style join VS do you like speed and daka so much daka join TR, being durable and heavy join NC, its all about play style don't like it don't play it or use a different gun that you do like.

http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/

The most recent monthly average broken down by overall (not that useful), BR75+ (still not that useful), and BR100 (most useful because we can assume skill is about even by this point).

The Orion has the most kills because it's used the most and we get our CQC LMG as our default, simple as that.

Average play time (hours):
Orion: 2058.3
SVA: 1911
Gauss SAW: 1882.6

Yes we get our CQC LMG for free while the TR has to spend certs to get the MSW-R and the NC has to get the Anchor, but on the flip side anyone that wants the only competitive VS specific AR has to spend certs on the Terminus, and the NC are the only faction that get a OHK sniper rifle for free.

So once you actually look at the real stats and ignore that the Orion is our default LMG (you should since the % disparity between the bolt driver and spectre/99sv is way higher than even orion vs. the saw) you'll see that the only "advantage" the VS has when it comes to LMG's is that we get our "bolt driver" for free while everyone else has to spend certs on theirs.

So yes, I will openly admit that the VS totally outshines the other factions when it comes to starter LMG's, but if you actually look at the specific numbers and actually compare role specific LMG's between factions things are actually very, very balanced right now with the exception of the Betelgeuse, and that weapon needs it's heat mechanic and not it's movement speed nerfed.

They even made a chain mechanic to the butcher to fire from 770 to 790 rpm,so basically it will has a lower ttk PLUS the SPA! While they are nerfing the 2 main things in the Betelgeuse and makes it with TERRIBLE muzzle and people just think that accuracy is worth for compensate,what the hell kind of biased changes is that?!

It spools up from 750rpm to 780rpm over the course of 0.4 seconds. Standard TTK for a 750/143 weapon on a non-heavy is around 0.48 seconds. You see where this is going?

Check the Butcher's stats on PTS; it has lost SPA.

The list shows the opposite and didn't say it will lose SPA

And the list is older than the PTS changes, you can choose to believe whatever you want to.

Why?why did they remove SPA from butcher?it always deserved the attachment and why they messed with the butcher chain mechanic?!

This proves that the LMG changes weren't suitable since their launch

Because the combat effectiveness of SPA on a 750/143 weapon is not worth the tradeoff of having no forward grip. But, giving the Butcher a forward grip would make it almost an exact copy of the CARV. Instead, they chose to remove the SPA (again, due to its overall uselessness on a 750/143 weapon) and give it the rate-of-fire spool up. It's unique, and fits within the Terran arsenal.

Of course they weren't. That's why the GODSAW was drastically changed several months ago. That's why the Butcher and the Betelgeuse have gone through several minor changes since their release. That's why they're being changed again.

The ADS seems REALLY op... but I'm only just starting to play on other factions. Honestly when I was using the Orion, it was the fire rate that made me think it was an op gun... i didn't even notice the ADS thing until I was fighting nothing but ADAD warriors. SVA isn't even used, idk why that'd be getting nerfed. Not to mention it isn't a CQC gun, it's better than almost any NC rifle at all ranges (because no NC gun can be automatic and accurate).

SPA is most effective when the weapon has high dps already,MSW is also 750/143 and everyone put SPA on it and nobody at all said it was useless,not a good idea to remove the SPA from the butcher,it needs both:the chain mechanic and SPA just as the BG needs the heat mechanic and extra ADS to make them solid

Lol,LMGs are already in a good shape (well,most of them) they need to tweak the low dps ones and the high dps NC and TR directive ones

No, it's actually the exact opposite.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/2mm84x/data_analysis_soft_point_ammo/

Until people actually datamined and did the math regarding weapon TTK with and without SPA.

Yes they did. We've been having this discussion on Reddit for over a year.

No it doesn't. SPA provides almost no noticeable performance increase.

The only LMG that actually has a case in-favor of 0.75 ADS is the NS-15. There is absolutely no reason for an LMG with the exact same DPS as its cross-faction counterparts to be given such a large advantage.

I'm going to go ahead and assume that you don't read the PS2 Reddit (which is fine, I'm not attacking you over that or anything), but most of this stuff has been discussed in-depth/ad nauseam/over and over for quite a long time over there. I suggest you check it out.

So you see SPA is useless for high dps weapons?alright,remove it from anchor,MSW-R and high dps SMGs like cyclone and armistice,high dps carbines like GD-7F and serpent becouse..hey they are NOT effective ok?