Orion/ Betelgause Nerf?

Discussion in 'Heavy Assault' started by Lekaseta, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. iSpank

    So, alien technology based weapons uses lead-acid batteries, nice
  2. Peasnriz

    Thank you for completely dismissing my experiences of playing and skill, I have been mown down plenty of times by VS and NC a like, however in key areas like in the ability to peek cover and strafe back in having %50 more movement speed is a massive advantage. For the most part accuracy is a function of a players aim and burst control as opposed to a guns inherent recoil stats.

    SPA advantages on LMGs are extremely minimal especially when you factor in headshots (I believe SPA gives a 1 bullet advantage between 18-21 meters on body shots versus standard ammo, and that decreases through each damage tier). I would be happy if there was asymetrical balance however there is not, if you observe server smashes or other competitive tournaments every squad is made up of almost entirely HA, the VS has the most effective gun in the most effective class in the game. Asymetrical balance tends to mean what ever the person arguing for something wants it to mean.

    I find it dubious to claim that VS has the most talented players to such a degree that they have swayed the statistics to a large degree above the average player. If we were to hold the assertion true that VS is the most talented faction and has attracted the best players why did they flock there and are still there especially given the derth of decent weapons which you seem to want to point out?

    I would reiterate my previous point 'I always felt that the 0.75 should have been only on the SVA-88, it was the trade off between having mobility and rpm between the SVA and Orion respectively.' In a game where guns are usually side-grades I find it odd that the Orion is seen as so superior to the SVA to the extent that people in these sorts of threads dismiss the SVA as a terrible gun, something which people with a reasonable disposition point as erroneous, that being the case why is this situation of lack of faction choice being perpetuated, while I am not a VS player would it not be reasonable for a VS player to want other lmgs to be made reasonable choices rather than the Orion/Betelguese being the undisputed best.
  3. ATRA_Wampa-One

    First off, it's what I do and thank you for being appreciative of that.

    Also, being able to move 50% faster when you're already moving 50% slower isn't that big of a deal when you're corner peaking. Not that I expect anyone to believe me when my most used weapon both in time played and total kills doesn't have the standard 0.5 ADS speed instead of the Orion/SVA/Balancegoose or anything. Yes 0.75 is good. It's also the defining characteristic on the Orion/SVA/Balancegoose where the MSW-R/Anchor's defining characteristic is great accuracy stats combined with the best attachments. Funny thing is that the MSR-W has more in common with the Anchor than either one of them have with the Orion... something no one seems to realize here.

    SPA is the best attachment in the game.

    Also, I don't have to watch server smashes since I've played them multiple times. Using both NC and VS weaponry, and I would argue strongly that HA is the most effective class in the game (that would be medic) and that VS even has the best weapon that HA can equip for CQC (that would be the Cyclone). Also, before the QQ party starts with "why is TR never chosen for SS"... the air autists prefer the Reaver, then Scythe, then Mossie. It has literally nothing to do with infantry weapons. Again though, not like I haven't sat in SS prep meetings or anything to have this discussed at length or anything... oh wait.

    Here's a fun exercise, go ahead and look on both DA stats and Oracle of Death and compare both the Flare and TMG-50. The only advantage the Flare has over the TMG-50 is SPA and slightly better vertical recoil (.44 vs .45). Yet according to DA stats the Flare is better in every conceivable way, both accuracy and killing efficiency. That's one gun where by all accounts it should be performing worse than what the TR have... yet it doesn't. So yes, generally speaking VS>TR when it comes to skill. As to why they're still playing VS... well they're not playing VS all the time which is why I know for a fact that the MSR-W and Anchor is just as deadly in the hands of MLG tier players as the Orion is. Also, look at the BR100 KPU stats on oracle of death for the GODSAW/Balancegoose/Orion. Notice the huge swing on Feb 26... the day the GODSAW was buffed where the GODSAW was better than the Balancegoose?. It's almost like the MLG players skew the numbers when they switch factions... which is exactly what happened and the data I just had you look up proves it. Most of the time the MLG players don't pile on one faction all at once like they did that day and instead play VS the majority of the time. Why they normally do I couldn't tell you though... ask them since I'm not an MLG player.

    The SVA use to completely eclipse the Orion, however it fell way off when all the 0.75 weapons where put through a balance pass. Now, some people still prefer it to the Orion, some like myself don't really like either but are just using the Orion/Balancegoose until they aurax it and then go back to their favorite weapon, and some like the Orion enough that they even prefer it over the Balancegoose, and some fully embrace the Balancegoose, so to call the Orion/Balancegoose the "undisputed best" is kind of funny when here I am... someone that mains VS and has spent the majority of the time playing HA saying that the Orion/Balancegoose isn't the "undisputed best" LMG.
  4. Corezer

    stick to heavy, pulsar C is the best ranged carbine, bar none, and functions more like a merc that trades a piddly amount of firepower for access to a full loadout of ranged combat attachments to include AFG. The Eclipse solves one of the biggest problems for LA, the GD is only better for ranged, but by better I mean it sucks less at doing something it isn't made to do, other than that the serpent is the same thing.

    The only arsenal where VS has any hard inferiority is ARs, and even then only for range...

    stop embarrassing yourself, please... everyone already knows you have no idea what you're talking about when you speak on what weapons are good and bad, you're in GOKU for Christ's sake!
  5. Corezer

    So you're a heavy main... I know you would like to say that because you decided to pick up LA yesterday that your 2 years behind the overshield is irrelevant, but that's not how it works either.
  6. ATRA_Wampa-One

    Yeah, logging 8-900 kills in the last 5 months as an HA while logging something like 5,000 kills on LA and 2,000 kills on Infiltrator in that same time frame means I main heavy. :rolleyes:

    I totally admit that my stats show I've played HA for the majority of my time in game, but while I use to have about 50% of my time being HA it's now down to 38% since I switched to LA. I'll probably aurax the balancegoose but then I'm absolutely switching back to my Flare on the rare occasions I switch back to HA.

    Nahh light assault is best assault, and I'm only finishing up the Phantom for the Parsec and then switching to full time LA with HA pulled for room holds that matter.

    Pulsar C is great but the AC-11x is superior in every way but DPM and velocity, not to mention it gets the exact same attachments as the Pulsar C so might want to re-check your assumptions about what weapons are better than others and why. And no, the GD-7F is basically the VX6-7 which is an already great gun on steroids and to say the Serpent is as good as the GD-7F means you haven't spent any serious time with either. As someone who not only has the Eclipse but is about 70% of the way to auraxing it already after only having it a little more than a month I will absolutely say that both the unlimited ammo and UBSG covers up the two of the three glaring holes with the Solstice (low ammo pool, lack of CQC viability, low DPM which is still an issue), but that doesn't change the fact that the Solstice is the worst starting carbine.

    Serious question... what does being in GOKU have to do with not knowing what are good and what are bad weapons? Like just because we have an unhealthy obsession with mayo and anime doesn't mean we don't know how to do things like statistical analysis or peer review of infantry weapons.
    • Up x 1
  7. MorganM

    Everyone has access to a .75 ADS LMG... NS 15M and it's a sweet gun too. Orion is overrated.

    Orion & NS 15M
    NS 15M has .75 ADS movement, better velocity, same damage profile, much shorter reload, larger magazine size, larger ammo pool, better accruacy while moving and ADS, lower vertical recoil, lower horizontal recoil (and a clear left bias which can be compensated), better first shot recoil AND more attachements!

    Orion has... what? Higher rate of fire... and?

    Orion is the most overrated gun in the whole freak'n game. Everyone complains about it but anyone who's switch to VS for more than a month quickly moves on to superior weapons. It's not bad for a standard issue, free, gun but people have put it up on this pedistol but the facts don't justify it on paper or in game.
    • Up x 1
  8. Corezer

    exactly, it means you main heavy, and have been playing an off class for 5 months, you are still most experienced as a heavy, when the chips are down, and something matters, as you say, you go back to your main.

    It means you don't know what you are talking about because you are terrible at the game, goku is a fresh field of turnips...

    The serpent = gd7f for 95% of situations where you would pull one.
  9. ATRA_Wampa-One

    HA and medic are the two best classes in the game, I hate every single VS assault rifle which is why I don't play that class, and I usually like to let other people play the 1-2 infils we bring on difficult drops so my options are limited. I have no problem admitting that ever member of GOKU knows when to bring their A-game when the PL calls out the room hold is going to suck and make sure our squad comp is perfect for that drop and comms are clear while we hold a point against vastly superior numbers. Thankfully that happens about once a week when I play which means I (and every other member of GOKU) gets to mess around the vast majority of the time when we play this game and we're only going up against slightly superior numbers.

    Yes, the best +200 member outfit in the game when it comes to average KDR, VKDR, KPH, SPH, and accuracy means we're terrible at the game and a fresh field of turnips.

    Oh, and our TR alt-fit is also the best +130 member TR outfit in the game when it comes to every one of those stats as well so it's obviously not because VS is OP.

    Real talk, the serpent is the worst 845 ROF gun in the game and I would rather use the VX6-7, Pulsar C, or even the Solstice over it 100% of the time. In fact the only carbines I actually still use are the VX6-7 and Eclipse when I play LA and Pulsar C when I play Engineer; and the only LMG's I use when I play HA are the balancegoose, Flare, and NS-15AE and only the first and last ones until I aurax them.

    • Up x 1
  10. Kociboss

    The only superior lmg is betelgeuse. Simply amazing!
  11. Razeel

    Betelgeuse is assault rifle that was given to HA and thats freaking stupid.
  12. MaDiv

    I would say instead of nerfing them, tweak them to a point where it would finally fit the lore. We all know the VS has the highest precision, less (or no) bulletdrop and low reload times, but not the highest DPS or the highest Rof. So why does the Orion, SVA and Betelgeuse have the same Rof as the T9 CARV, a weapon of the faction with the weapons that SHOULD have the highest ROF in the game?

    Lore says so:

    "Although it does not have the impact of the NC weapon systems, nor is it able to equal the rate of fire of the TR weaponry" (From the wikia)
  13. Isokon

    Why do all VS LMGs have worse moving ads COF than the Anchor, GD-22S, Bull and MSW-R, when they SHOULD be the most precise?
  14. MaDiv

    Why does the TMG 50 have a 577/167 DMG model altough the Anchor / EM 6 have a 600/167 model?
  15. qiray12

    Cus its the NC trait to be better with the harder hitting stuff?

    Your TMG 50 is just a copy for wannabe NC rebels.
    Most of the copies of other faction weapons are worse then from the original weapon (with orion as a exeption cus its equal or better then a 750 RoF tr weapon).

    Btw you should be happy your TMG 50 isnt as bad as the ursa is when you look at RoF.
  16. MaDiv

    Harder hitting means higher DMG, but not Rof. So if the T.R. shall have the guns with the highest Rof in the game, I wonder why the N.C. have guns with a 23 bpm higher fire speed than the guns of the T.R. in the same DMG section (167).
  17. Isokon

    You are right, they definitely need to correct that:

    TMG-50: 577 RPM, 143 max dmg

    Looking good... :D
  18. MaDiv

    You got it...
  19. vanu123

    VS have the orion, battlegoat, and Sva-88. Thats it.
  20. Shanther

    With way worse accuracy...