Orion/ Betelgause Nerf?

Discussion in 'Heavy Assault' started by Lekaseta, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. ATRA_Wampa-One

    Asymmetrical balance.

    It's the reason why TR has the best AR's and NC has the best carbines. VS gets 2 better LMG's.
  2. 0fly0

    it's not ads speed tr cobalt player need it's guided bullet and even with that i'm not sure you can win an alert...
  3. Corezer

    Asymmetrical balance doesn't mean what you think it means.

    it means everyone has a different optimal playstyle, or niche based on faction, not that certain classes are disadvantaged as a whole.

    and again, you failed to explain why heavy should get the modifier that does more for the heavy than other classes. You explained why you think VS should get it, not heavy.

    try again
    • Up x 1
  4. ATRA_Wampa-One

    For the same reason TR gets 40 round AR's and Carbines, and the NC get 600 ROF 167 weapons and 200 damage weapons.
  5. Corezer

    and those traits alter the applicable playstyles with the class and create skill barriers for other playstyles, but they don't effect the balance of the class in a way that they become empirically better at one or the other. for instance even though the carv is better than the saw up close, they have the same body ttk up close and the saw does even better in headshots to make up for its inferior starting hip cone. Likewise the saw is better at mid ranges but the carv has a faster TTK after dropoff and lower expansion.

    there is no twitch MLG reflex quick scope swag skill that makes you move faster.

    But again, irrelevant, this is faction balance, not class balance.

    You still have yet to answer my question... I'll be nice and give you a hint, it's because there is no reason why heavies with high class DPS weapons and more durability should stack a mobility buff on that. Now for factional balance I recommend that the weapons be given compensatory buffs, but you don't want that, you main heavy, you don't want a niche, you want it all... but it's not OP, nope nope nope.

    so transparent...
    • Up x 1
  6. ATRA_Wampa-One

    This is where you're wrong, and hilariously so. Non LMG VS weapons requires the user to play in a very restrictive way due to their lower than average DPM, and ways that both the NC and especially TR don't ever have to, to say nothing of the fact that those same VS weapons are downgrades in almost every way to their NC and TR counterparts making those classes empirically inferior to their equivalents on the other factions.

    Also, since you're only comparing the base weapons, the TR get a 1787 DPS starter with 5720 DPM, the NC get a 1670 DPS starter with 5010 DPM, and the VS get a 1663 DPS starter with 4290 DPM for three out of the 5 starting infantry classes. How can you even look at those numbers and say that the VS isn't "empirically inferior" to TR and NC, especially when all the VS gets in exchange is a 1-2% accuracy increase over those other starters and marginally faster reload speed.

    No, but there is one that makes you aim better.

    Something you gloss over if it's not talking about 0.75 ADS on LMG's.

    It's not a mobility buff, it's less of a mobility nerf. ADS speed is 50% outside of a few weapons, and the HA's shield movement penalty stacks on top of that, which actually makes using a 0.75 ADS weapon on an HA less effective than using one on LA, Medic, Engineer, or Infiltrator.

    Also, I use to main HA. I now mostly play LA and Infiltrator which explains why I have more kills with my Eclipse than my Betelgeuse even though I've had the Betelgeuse about 4 months longer in addition to only having the directive armor for LA, and why when you look at my kill-board from last night you'll see a whole 9 kills while I was playing HA and almost 80 kills as infiltrator because I'm grinding for my Parsec and infiltrator armor, to say nothing of the fact that I only just got the 800 kills for my HA armor directive in January of this year when I had the LA requirement done a month before and the infiltrator one done a month before that.

    But sure, I main HA because that fits your narrative of me wanting to protect my "OP toys" when I have over 1000 more kills with the Flare than with the Orion and Betelgeuse combined.
    • Up x 1
  7. Corezer

    again, compensatory buffs, also commonly faster reload speeds counteracts commonly lower DPM

    again, cherry picking other classes to make an argument for HA. and again you are arguing faction balance which can be achieved in a million different ways besides giving some players something broken to make up for their outfit mates playing as battletoads

    again, complete semantics.

    Face the facts, you don't have a leg to stand on, and have been grasping at straws this whole time.

    "why should HA have access to a mobility buff on top of their higher durability while using high for class DPS weapons?"
    "Well, a lot of my outfit mates roll medics and light assaults, so they have really low damage per mag and I have to be OP to balance them out..."

    I mean that's what you're saying, and you expect to be taken seriously by anyone other than a player more concerned with what they play than the game itself... it's just ridiculous.
    Other classes have their own problems but it doesn't justify having one be OP, that's not asymmetrical balance, that's bad balance.
    • Up x 1
  8. WeeWeeShaker

    What's SOE?
  9. vanu123

    So where is the: Sva-88, Polaris, Ursa, Flare, Pulsar-LSW buff? Or you know the weapons that aren't orion/battlegoose aka the worst LMG arsenal out of all three empires.
  10. vanu123

    So we can compare it with either the CARV which has 50 more rounds and faster velocity and is on point with the orion.
  11. Casterbridge

    I don't understand why SVA-88 is being listed as a bad VS LMG, I always enjoy using it, I know it's a bit off from what it once was but still heck of a good gun.

    From what I can see at the Stat site the SVA-88 still performs very well.
  12. Shanther

    The SVA-88 is far from a BAD LMG it is just a shell of what it used to be.
  13. Onhil

    SVA-88 a bad weapon? What the heck are you smoking? The SVA-88 is superior to the Orion in almost every way except DPS for god sake. The Ursa is not that bad either as it's pretty accurate as well for a 167 dmg model LMG. However the rest of the weapons should be tweaked a little.

    Then again I think people would want a Orion, Betelgeuse and a SVA-88 nerf before we can get that. People say .75x movement multpilier is to good why not .60x - .65x?
  14. vanu123

    Read it again, I never said it was bad. Ursa on the other hand is terribad and probably the worst LMG in the game if not for the EM1. .75 ads multiplier is the only thing that makes the Sva-88, orion, and battlegoat decent weapons, take that away and they are downgraded TR LMGs
  15. miraculousmouse

    ^ Exactly what he said. Orion/Betel/SVA are pretty garbage without their movement multipliers.

    Orion becomes a downgraded MSWR, Betel loses the .75x so now it's just an orion with unlimited mag pool, SVA becomes a ****** Anchor (similar DPS, anchor gets 167 damage while sva gets the .75x ADS).
    • Up x 1
  16. Peasnriz

    0.75 multiplier still bugs the hell out of me, I groan when I go into a situation where I know there are a lot of good/high skilled VS heavies knowing that I have almost nothing I can do to counter the quicker strafing around corner speed(compounded by server lag) and warping when they are ADADing.

    I always felt that the 0.75 should have been only on the SVA-88, it was the trade off between having mobility and rpm between the SVA and Orion respectively.
  17. iSpank

    SVA-88 is excellent LMG with a slightly lower DPS.
  18. Gutseen

  19. ATRA_Wampa-One

    And give those same people the Anchor and you'll be getting chain head-shot with no counter, or the MSR-W and you'll be getting mowed down even faster than the Orion because of it's SPA and higher accuracy.

    The issue isn't that the Orion/Betelguse is OP compared to the Anchor or MSW-R, it's that most of the best players migrated to the VS so people get killed by them in greater numbers which inflates the stats and causes people to think they're OP.

    Fast reload speeds don't mean anything when you're talking about high 30% accuracy to kill a shielded HA before you have a minimum 1.65 second reload in a game with sub second TTK times.

    Yes I am because that's asymmetrical balance, and the devs are(were at this point) perfectly fine to have the Orion be a bit better than every other LMG in the game if it meant VS were kept weak in other areas.

    It's not semantics, it's what's actually happening. An LA or Infiltrator with adrenaline pump gets a mobility boost, someone using a 0.75 ADS weapon gets less of a mobility nerf for going ADS.

    And yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. The VS has hands down the worst AR's in the game, and without the Pulsar C (which is an AC-11X downgrade) or VX6-7 we'd also have the worst carbines in the game as well. And don't come here talking about the Serpent when the GD-7F is superior to it in every way.

    Because of that we get some of the best LMG's in the game.
  20. I play by many names

    Its not that those weapons are too effective. Its the fact that redeployside has essentially removed most of the combat between facilities. All that many players ever experience is the combat inside facilities, which is why its no small wonder that CQC weapons are preferred. If people actually had to fight their way between facilities in the open terrain, the more range oriented varieties of each class of weapon would be more common and considered more effective. As it stand now however, you rarely ever actually need a gun with 'longer legs' because the ranges stay relatively short in most facility combat.
    • Up x 2