Original Shotguns current state

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by RockPlanetSide2, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. RockPlanetSide2

    Original Shotgun Issues
    Barrage, Haymaker, NightHawk, Mauler, Sweeper, Piston, Thanatos, Nova, Pandora

    1) Originally the only CQC stopping power weapons:
    2) Replaced as such by SMGS
    3) Replaced as such by PUMP ACTION faction shotguns and the NS Baron
    Better “time to kill” full auto CQC carbines, rifles, and lmgs

    I am not arguing that you can’t go 10-0 or more with these weapons (you can go 10-0 with a knife). What I am arguing is that they are no longer the best choice, ever, for any situation. Their only real purpose is to be a directive grind.

    The issues would be easy to fix if Sony/DBG had not just pushed out other guns that just overlapped their specific original role in the game.

    Giving the original shotguns more range, just makes the Barron worthless
    Giving them more stopping power just makes the pump-action shotguns worthless
    And with the faction specific CQC full auto weapons being so good at CQC and medium range, there is no reason to use the original shotguns as an option, unless you are grinding.

    The only argument for the guns right now is that “they reload fast!"… that argument does not really reflect being good in game however… the CQC carbines load just as fast… and the pump action shotguns actually kill targets… having a fast reload on a mediocre weapon is not an asset.

    Slug ammo is just a gimmick in the game, and trying to turn your shotgun into a scout rifle is just a terrible idea, it is cool for laughs, but that is about it.


    So you left with basically “more ammo per clip”? What do you think.
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  2. UberNoob1337101

    Full-auto shotguns are arguably better than pump-actions, just so much easier to use and consistent compared to the bogus of ADSing just before shooting, only to realize a random pellet missed and your opponent is barely alive. Against Nanoweave it isn't as nearly of a pain as with PA shotguns.


    Semi-auto shotguns though might as well be removed from the game. They don't really have a purpose besides getting slugs on them. Ironically slugs are better than actual buck-shot unless you hug your target.

    I'd even extend this thread to all shotguns in general, after the nerfs the best CQC weapons in the game in terms of sheer power are CQC ARs and carbines. SMGs are the easiest to use due to point-'n-click hip-fire. Shotguns have lost both their reasons to exist, because their hip-fire and damage is trash compared to pre-nerf and they weren't hard countered by Nanoweave, and that's coming from a guy who has ~800 PA shotgun, ~500 full-auto and ~300 semi-auto shotgun kills post-nerf.


    ...If only they didn't nerf the most important stats of a shotgun so massively, hell, why did the nerf happen in the first place? :(
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  3. Eternaloptimist

    And yet strangely, I think I hear more shotgun blasts around bases on the EU servers than I have in a long time. Maybe it is just coincidence or maybe people have started playing who didn't know what they were like before the change and who find them OK.
  4. LaughingDead


    Tell me that, after you pull up DA on shotgun usage before and after.

    To OP, basically, they're worthless. Pretty much fell in line with meme guns that perform poorly in their supposed "area of specialization". Basically, toxic heavy mains hated being countered, so they got nerfed. Simple. Just like every other nerf that's happened. Hell rockets are getting a massive buff in the CAI patch.
  5. DeadlyOmen

    You can thank the forumsiders that think the last weapon to kill them is OP.

    The devs bowed to the tears because they need money.

    This is true of every nerf: past, present and future.
  6. Ziggurat8

    Old shotguns sucked ***. RNG Lotto kills suck which was all shotguns except the Baron past 15m.

    They couldn't just buff shotgun RNG without reducing damage otherwise they'd be insanely OP. I would take the current shotguns over the old shotguns every time. In fact I do. I only EVER used Baron before, now I use all the shotguns depending on my mood and what I plan on using them for.

    Old shotguns couldn't RELIABLY kill across a typical indoor room. If you weren't in smelling distance RNG could screw you over as much as help you. The new shotguns are still very powerful in close. They're also reliable for dealing steady, if low, damage outside their ideal ranges. Old shotguns you were as likely to do 0 damage as you were to actually hit the target.

    You know the best thing a shotgun does? Hands down. It counters ADAD warp wizard shenanigans better than any other weapon. Dancing maniacs just fall over while trying to juke about with that medkit. CQC carbines and smgs might hit nothing but air. Shotguns will tear em apart.
  7. Phoenix_Yih

    Talking about shoutguns, I'm just curious about why NERF Jackhammer?

    Yep, it's a shotgun but a faction special heavy weapon first! Maybe it was so OP, but then, waht about T7? Jackhammer is the only good choice to face to face a TR with it. I can't even kill an infiltrator by one burst mode shoot in 15 metres now! The worst heavy weapon ever. Just worse than normal shouguns.

    Annnnnnnnnnd, tell me, why laser sight doesn't work on Jackhammer? Kidding?! NERF it DMG even accuracy? DB, return my certs, plz. :)
  8. Okaydan

    I think larger magazines would not be a bad thing on the semi-auto (not Baron). I Auraxium'd all shotguns except the auto one (gold), but the only ones I feel worth using, are the PA's for just two reasons:

    Up to 6 kills per mag -> full room clear in almost no time and
    instant killing tunnel visioned farmers (as light assault) -> no time to react for them

    I think, the semi-auto's could use a default of 12 magazine size (2 shots per kill, 6 kills/mag). This way, they become closer to PA's in DPM and clearing potential. Then the choice becomes (1) instant kill or (2) less punishment for bad accuracy.
  9. Ziggurat8

    Never used the jackhammer before the change so I can't comment on how it worked before.

    I can however tell you the tripple shot is still extremely effective at mowing down inflitrators. One of the very best BASR snipers on my server was causing all kinds of havok at a base I was at. I equipped a dark light Jackhammer and went hunting. After 3-4 times of me mowing him down he left. You can duck a BASR HS if you time it just right. Not much you can do about 3 shotgun blasts to your chest.

    If it's "nerfed" I can't image how awesome it must have been before. I think it's pretty bad *** still. It's like a semi auto and a pump you can hot swap depending on what you need. Only real drawback with it is the reload speed. Though I think that's just an NC HA trait. All their weapons seem to take forever to reload.
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  10. Nintyuk

    The Brawler is a Jackhammer you can use on all classes, well worth the grind for me.
  11. RockPlanetSide2

    The Brawler is a worse semi-auto than the crap ones that already exist... its just shiny.
  12. Nintyuk

    State to me why it's worse then my favourite gun the mauler?
  13. RockPlanetSide2


    My mistake "as bad as"
  14. Liewec123

    i agree with this thread, shotguns aren't what they should be,
    they should fill the niche of being unstoppable powerhouses within 10m and REALLY bad outside of that.

    currently you can actually lose cqc fights to a guy hipfiring an lmg...

    the people who asked for more range are partly to blame for the nerfs,
    you got your pitiful range increase at the expense of cqc potential.

    (i'm a shotgun enthusiast, auraxiums for the mauler, brawler, piston, bruiser, claw, sweeper and twice for jackhammer)
  15. RockPlanetSide2

    It's because they made hip fire too good for the full auto weapons... I really think they just have no where to go with design... the messed it up so bad, where can they go... even more ammo on a shotgun does not make you die any less.. its still just bad.

    It really needs to be, if you see me around a corner and I run into you and you brought your LMG, you are just actually dead as my shotgun blows your arms off.

    Dumb little kids just whine about that tho :p.
  16. Demigan

    First a comment on the people who blame the requests for better range for the nerfs.
    There have always been people who complained that shotguns were capable of doing a OHK, ignoring the fact that only the pump-action could do it semi-reliable and other shotguns would require a headshot in extreme CQC to actually pull it off with lots of RNG to make that headshot fail. The fact that the damage on the semi-auto and auto shotguns have been dialed back so they leave someone with a sliver of health on a headshot, the devs listened to those requests rather than by listening to the people who asked for range buffs on shotguns.


    Second, let's put the shotgun change in perspective.
    Imagine the devs wanted to make the sniper rifle better at mid-range and gave it better hipfire, but to keep it "balanced" they add a small COF while in ADS.
    Or imagine an LMG that receives a hipfire upgrade but to "balance" it they add a required bolt-action after every 10 bullets.
    They "upgrade" the weapon but sacrifice the weapons entire purpose to do it. The sniper rifle stops being able to accurately hit heads or even torso's at range and the LMG stops being a proper bullethose, and the shotgun suffered exactly that fate: It's a weapon designed for CQC that is worse at CQC than other weapons.

    Every weapon is designed for a specific purpose and has drawbacks somewhere else. A short-range Carbine or SMG has great hipfire but high damage falloff. A mid-range LMG or AR has low damage falloff and great accuracy, but lacks the hipfire capabilities. Shotguns had two pro's: best damage in CQC (but only marginally) and high damage per magazine for a non-LMG weapon. But it also had some of the biggest, if not the biggest, drawbacks of any weapon class: A combination of RNG and the most extreme damage falloff in the game that dwarfs any other damage falloff.
    Now shotguns can barely break even with other dedicated CQC weapons. They did become more "reliable" in actually hitting their target, but compared to a CQC Carbine or SMG they simply don't deal enough damage for their "reliability".

    How could the solve this:
    Revert shotgun damage back to it's old levels, or even buff it a bit. Shotguns should stay the best of the best in CQC combat, just like snipers are the best of the best in long-range combat and LMG's are the best mid-range bullethoses. This still means that shotguns are incredibly inversatile compared to something like a Carbine or SMG, as even an SMG can be used at 50+m distance if you just burst-fire it. To solve that, whenever you go ADS there is either a heavy smart-choke (great for reducing RNG of pellet spread) or you automatically switch to slug ammunition. This means that shotguns are still less powerful at range than dedicated mid/long range weapons but have similar versatility as other CQC weapons, although obviously the Carbines and SMG's will still be better at mid/long range weapons than a shotguns.
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