[Suggestion] One Utility slot or?

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by Canaris, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. Canaris


    I've been noticing around here a lot of my fellow LA's have been trying to wrack their brains around coming up with something else for our class to have to give us a touch of uniqueness.

    We're the skirmisher class by and large, usually getting up to no good behind the enemy lines away from friendlies, attacking from that unlooked direction.

    I agree with my fellows that the LA seems to be missing just a little something that other classes have to do with traits, toys and class abilities.

    The LA is supposed to be a killer, plain and simple defined roll. So my suggestion is instead of just having one utility slot they are the only class to have two slots.
    So you can bring med packs and C4 with you at the same time.

    These items being consumables in nature it means the LA won't be able to use it over and over in the field, once he's out he'll need to resupply at a terminal like normal.

    It gives the LA a boost without making them OP.
  2. Corezer

    they could have the Nano Regen Device as an "F" key ability in addition to the space bar jetpack. This would augment the medic by creating a more mobile class to give healing on different parts of the line and in areas hard to get to by foot due to enemy breach or what have you. Meanwhile the medic could have their NRD replaced with an ACE tool that constructs a Nanite Emission Post. The NED would act much in the same way as a healing grenade, except permanent until destroyed or replaced somewhere else. This would leave the Medic still viable as a fighter with the assualt rifle, and a boon with the ability to revive, and a better healer with the ability to provide medical services across more of the line. LA would get some survivability in medium range fights (although not as good at any range as a shield, a little "lighter" duty, IE Light Assault) and the ability to bring some healing to the fight would make them a more viable team selection, we would also get the ability to carry C4 without neutering ourselves completely as fighters. Still not as logistically feasible an option as a rocket launcher, but it would give us some much needed flexibility as combatants
  3. simon11russell

    I can see two flaws with this idea. The first being what your suggestion is based around, that LA is a class designed for killing other infantry. If that was all you needed to do in a given situation then going as a Medic or Heavy is a far better choice in terms of weaponry and survivability.

    Secondly I would say that LA is already the most Infantry resource reliant class in the game with just C4 and with the upcoming resource revamp to "make resources have more meaning" I can see this only getting worse. Adding the need to keep a second utility stocked will just exacerbate the problem. Not even to mention the fact that no other class has to spend infantry resource on there tool slot, so why should we?

    @Corezer I'm not sure that standing on the toes of another class and lifting there ability for us is the way to go about designing a tool for LA. TBF very few people would actualy use a aoe heal on the LA for anything more than patching themselves up after every fight and we already have restoration and medkits to do that. Leave the healing to the medics.
  4. ArcKnight

    I got a better Idea self use ammo pack
  5. Wolfwood82

    Ideas like this really illustrate why gamers do not have the mindset to balance games. The ability to carry both Medpacks and C4 is an obvious yay, but we were built without that option for a very good reason.

    That reason being we only have 1 utility for ourselves and the option to carry a universal utility item. This presents us with a very tough choice. Without that choice, we're versatile, longer lived, and deadly to anything on or near the ground.

    We were intentionally designed with limitations on ammo, both in magazine capacity and reserve rounds. We were intentionally designed with limits to the number of C4 we can carry, and the amount of gear we can carry. This gives us tough choices to make.

    The problem is we do not have many meaningful choices to make. Our weapons vary in effective ranges but those ranges are pretty much all under 100m in a battlefield where infantry can kill at 300+m. Our utility is good, but we get just one so our role continues to be extremely limited.

    The best options are either replace our tool slot with an implant slot (with certable implants such as grenade tossing enhancements, movement enhancements, things of a passive nature that do not require a button press). Or a single shot grenade launcher of some design that's capable of firing plasma grenades which ignite an area and burn anyone in the area for a few seconds as long as they are in it. This second idea doesn't add to our meaningful choices by itself, but it does open up the possibility of more Spec-Assault weapons like rocklets.
  6. CanadianAttackBeaver

    Is this your self-diagnosed Asperger's Syndrome kicking in again?

    Ah yes, other people's suggestions indicate their lack of mental capability to constructively add something but your suggestions are clearly "the best". Get over yourself, clown.

    That said, yours and Canaris' suggestions both have merit. Clearly the devs intended us to choose between damage (C4) and surivability (medpacks) but there is obviously a perceived imbalance between these two choices. Your suggestion would grant the ability for LA to dictate the lanes of attack open to infantry, which would create interesting tactics but also massive team-kill issues.

    Implants are something that will be implemented, if the Roadmap holds true; I guess we'll see. Regardless of timing, I sincerely doubt that LA will be the only class receiving these. Depending on how these are implemented, these are another route to grant LA a unique ability.

    I agree that LA doesn't have meaningful choices to make, which actually supports the idea of removing what appears to be the arbitrary and meaningless choice between C4 and medpacks.
    • Up x 1
  7. Wolfwood82

    You have a point. I concede to your infinite wisdom oh wise and mighty one.

    Please do not smite me. I beg of thee.:oops:
  8. CanadianAttackBeaver

    You have a point as well. If you actually just made the point without commenting on the worthiness of other people's suggestions, people might listen to your points more. And the original suggestion is valid, as you noted, if the choice between C4 and medpacks is meaningless.
    • Up x 1
  9. Wolfwood82

    Please no hit mastier!
  10. Corezer

    TBF very few people actually use the AOE heal on CM for anything more than patching themselves up after every fight and we have restoration and medkits to do that. Hell I hardly see them using the app to heal, just revive for the xp.

    In organized groups things would be different for both instances.

    I do see ammo packs getting left around, cause they are set and forget for free XP, I see medics using AOE heal more in pugs/non-organized play if it were a set and forget mechanic like this.

    The only negative aspect I can find is potential backlash from CMs because even getting something better they may very well whine because NRD was theirs, and no one likes change. I could find people who's $20k compact you could replace with a Maserati and they would get mad because you didn't leave their old car for them too. as far as legitimate reasoning goes, I don't see any reason not to do this.
  11. Corezer

  12. Corezer

    There are only 2 limitations to anyone, health and ammo.

    lets look at the classes which more people say ARE complete:
    additional rechargeable pool of HP known as the NMG. while a little more cumbersome than healing, your 600 HP NMG and 500 HP shield create a full sized pool of HP that is completely rechargeable without outside aid.
    Limited by ammo, but with a larger pool than other classes because their unlimited health is a little more cumbersome than say, a medic's due to the long recharge of the shield.
    The verdict, not as limited as the incomplete classes, only one matrix of limitation.

    Unlimited ammo through self restoration.
    limited by health.

    Unlimited HP
    limited by ammo

    All these classes are able to engage infantry and vehicles (medics are the only class which can so freely carry C4 as it is the one in least need of medkits.

    If LA had the NRD they would not be limited by HP, would have the ability to engage both infantry and vehicles, but still be limited by ammo, about as much as the current medics (maybe a touch more due to additional drop on carbines.)
  13. simon11russell

    You have to remember that ammo and health are two very different mechanics and this has a huge impact on the way that they can be resupplied and is why they have to be different.

    Ammo is relatively plentiful and because of this having the ammo pack just be dropped and forgotten is ok. They are mainly used outside of the fight because stocking up in the middle of a fight is largely unnecessary, unless you where woefully unprepared and got into a fight with only a single clip left.

    Health on the other hand is far more scarce and valuable and because of this it is more difficult to resupply. The most potent methods for restoring your health (Restroation, Med kits and the medical tool) require you to put away your weapon to use, if you could keep up the fight and heal at a high rate it would make you unstoppable. The NRD is weak and slow intentionally and popping it in the middle of a fight isn't going to change the course of a battle, with the short TTK its likely only gonna re-gen one or two bars before someone dies. What its really meant for is toping off your entire squad quickly once they have fought to and are holding the point.

    The main problem with your idea is that the window in which passive healing can operate without making fights one-sided or being so weak as to be pointless is so small that there is no room for two different variants. If you make the deployable stronger that the current NRD then a well set up and coordinated defence would be unbreakable. If you make the NRD weaker for the LA then healing takes you out the battle so long its just easier to use a restoration kit. And if you make them the same as we have currently the really what's the point?
  14. CanadianAttackBeaver

    You make some good points. People should be aware that Engineers do not have to choose between ammo, explosives and medpacks in their utility slot. The ammo pack is always available via hitting 'b' when the turret is about to be deployed; similar to changing a fire mode, it changes what is dropped between the turret and ammo pack. As an Engineer, a player only has to choose between explosives and medpacks, similar to LA.
  15. Wolfwood82

    Right instead of improving a limitation on HP or ammo, LA have JJs. JJs do a lot for us, I think people need to realize that.

    HA is geared towards front line combat, it has an overshield to help it out with that role.

    Medics are meant to patch up troops, they have their AOE heal for that role.

    Engineers are geared towards support. They have mana turrets for support fire and ammo packs for replenishing ammo reserves in the field. Why two? Because either of those abilities by itself would really suck and isn't up to par with the other abilities.

    What makes a class "finished"? Meaningful choices. HA have a variety of RLs and their LMGs to pick and choose what they need for their situation. They have a variety of overshields to choose from to specialize for certain set ups. Engineers have a massive variety of choices, turrets, weapon, mines, C4, medpacks.

    Medics are the least played class. Do you think it's because no one wants to play a medic? Let's look at their choices. They can throw healing grenades, cert their aoe heal, their heal gun, choose weapons, they have the option of C4 or medpacks (some choice). Infiltrators? Better since they were given SMGs, this gives them a meaningful choice between sniping and short range combat. Otherwise what utility do you think they are going to take? Medpacks or AI mines? Tough choice... Not a whole lot of spread for their options. The class gets boring to play when you only have 1 or 2 roles to specialize into or try and spread yourself out across.

    And LA? We have less choice then every other class. Our range is limited to 75-100m or less in weapons. Our combat ability is restricted to CQC vs MAX suits and vehicles. We have many of the same options as the other classes, however ALL of them have more, and more meaningful options.
  16. Wolfwood82


    Don't get me wrong Corezer, you are one of 4 people on these forums who I like and appreciate for actually having a brain and using it. However you can be annoying sometimes.
  17. Corezer

    not even, medpacks all day every day, we has an AV turret that shoots out cats with laser eyes now.

    As it currently stands, engies make better assaultmen than LA. I have the same weapons for infantry, I can spawn cover that acts as a vehicle destroyer (not just deterrent, this thing murders!) and a pseudo sniper rifle against the unaware, and I have unlimited ammo that I can pass off to my allies.

    Jetpacks are good for getting places you wont get any support at, further highlighting your failings in the self sufficiency department. In combat they are just a gimmick, mind games have a floor based on the intelligence of your opponent, which can be higher than the ceiling based on the capabilities of your jet pack (how fast/accurately it can move you, how long it lasts, etc.) It only seems good because most people are too stupid to look up at the top of a cliff where people could actually be and would rather look straight at it as they run up to it. Good on average may be ok for you, but I want to perform my best, and LA cant keep up once opponents start getting smarter than lab rats. That is why I came up with the idea of multiple jetpack types, so that it wasn't so easy to predict where one was going to go if you lost sight of them because there are more types of jetpacks with different capabilities that also create a more meaningful choice for the LA player.

    Jetpack is a gimmick. it doesn't make up for health and ammo limitations. in the end if either run low I have to leave, alive or dead.
  18. Corezer

    health is no more difficult to resupply, you can do it at a terminal or nearby medic. ammo can be resupplied at a terminal or nearby engineer.

    the healing deployable would be the same rate the current NRD. The point is as a deployable they would be able to act in 2 places at once.

    The LA NRD would also be full effect. this wouldn't necessarily create an over abundance on defenses though as effects don't stack, and LA are usually away from the main body. This would only be a supplemental to bring healing to forces that have been otherwise cut off (something I see happen a lot in tower fights on offense when A is taken back by defenders but there are still people upstairs) so they can be at full health before they attempt a push through the enemy to rejoin the main body, and for the LA it would make C4 easier to carry.

    As far as the combat effectiveness of the healing rate. for full effect it would have to be combined with guerilla tactics, but even in head on battle while 1-2 bars doesn't seem like much it is an extra bullet, which while not the 3-5 of a NMG, still does make a difference. so I contest your self substantiated fact that it does not make a difference in the outcome with the true fact that like anything, it can when the battle is close enough.